Crankshaft pulley nut removal

[hyperhale]

I need to fit a new timing chain and have read that an Impact wrench is the way to approach the removal of the crank nut.

Quite happy to pay the £40 day hire charge but is there another safe way to remove it without potentially causing damage to the engine/flywheel/gearbox?

[Clive]

On my toledo a decent sized CP impact wrench wouldn't touch it :(
Ended up using a socket, long extension then a tommy bar at the end. The extension rested on an axle stand to keep it straight and act as a support just in front of the tommy bar. That was wacked with a small sledge hammer a few times. Job done. But that was unusually tight.

Others have used a tommy bar and spun th eengine on the starter. Think a heavy towel etc would be wise over that just in case......

[Alex]

Before spending out hiring an impact wrench try jamming the ring gear and using a long bar......you may save yourself some money.
When refitting make sure it's tight......someone I know had his fall off....twice :B

[hyperhale]

Alex wrote:

Before spending out hiring an impact wrench try jamming the ring gear and using a long bar......you may save yourself some money.
When refitting make sure it's tight......someone I know had his fall off....twice :B

Would I use something like a large screwdriver on the ring gear - worried I might break a tooth

[JohnD]

If you search for "Flywheel locking tool" you will find a variety of devices that use the ring gear to seize the engine for this and other purposes.  Most are specialized to one engine, and intended for use when the bell housing is off.
See: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ring+gear+toll&biw=1844&bih=995&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Q5q2VPOoGJb7arL_gfgB&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=flywheel+locking+tool&imgdii=_

But you will notice that they have only a  few teeth, some only one!  And when you consider the action of the Bendix gear, that slams in the ring gear at top torque every time you hit the starter button. I think that even a single tooth locked with a large screwdriver, is likely to be strong enough.

Another method may be used if you can remove the sump.  A length of timber, say 2x4 or similar inserted into the block so as to lock the journal of a bore, will not damage anything!

JOhn

[AlanChatterton]

But, if he's only changing the timing chain, why are you telling him things that require the gearbox to be removed?

I would use the rope trick to lock the engine.

Take out a spark plug, take that piston down to the bottom of its travel, then insert some rope or cord into the spar plug hole. Bring the piston back up and this will safely lock the engine to allow you to put a long bar on the front pulley nut. I think its needs to be about 100lb/ft ish, which is easy with a 3ft breaker bar.

To undo or do up, you simply need to consider which side of TDC you should lock the engine.

[don cook1]

What's the matter with having the car in gear with the footbrake on?

[thescrapman]

Alex wrote:

.....someone I know had his fall off....twice :B

Only twice... I knw someone who lost 3, then couldn't be bothered to find another...  :-(

[ferny]

GT6_Don wrote:

What's the matter with having the car in gear with the footbrake on?

Needs two people unless you're Mr Tickle.

[DougBGT6]

Well......that's what I did but, I was young and thoughtless  :B,  Aren't you putting your gearbox in danger?

[DougBGT6]

Mr Tickle?

[TedTaylor]

GT6_Don wrote:

What's the matter with having the car in gear with the footbrake on?

Nothing at all wrong with this suggestion Don and is something I have done if engine is to remain in the car.  If car still moves (as I have known one do) I would also pull on the handbrake and chock the wheels - in fact this method can work with just handbrake and chocked wheels so only one person required.

Then a socket with a very long lever - I would recommend 1/2 inch drive with the force that can be required, and if you only have an 12 or 18inch extension (quite those gigglers in the back row) and need more force use an extension tube on it.

There should not be any trouble with locking the flywheel using the teeth of the starter ring gear because it is extremely tough hardened steel designed to resist repeated shock loads.  As John says the action of the starter Bendix gear gives considerable repeat shock loads and the ring gear survives, and something jammed against the gear statically will give the teeth even less of a hard time.  I have made quite a number of locking tools over the years from 2mm to 4 mm strip steel depending upon what is available in the scrap metal box under the workbench.  Drill a hole at one end for a bolt to go into the bell housing bolt hole on the backplate, cut to length and file/hacksaw the other end into a vee to roughly fit into a tooth of the ring gear. You may need a washer as a spacer to get the vee to fit into the base of the centre of the tooth.  

Once made keep it for future use with this engine - it may even work with another engine.  I have a selection that I have made over the decades in my miscellaneous tools drawer.

If you can safely use a screwdriver or something to lock the flywheel then fine but do be very careful in case it suddenly jumps out because it is unrestrained.

MUT

[nang]

Others have used a tommy bar and spun th eengine on the starter. Think a heavy towel etc would be wise over that just in case......[/quote]

This is my usual method. Usually working alone, I use a 1/2" socket with a long extension. and sit it on the floor on the RHS looking from the front. Just a quick flick of the starter and it's off !
Tony.

[Alex]

AlanChatterton wrote:

But, if he's only changing the timing chain, why are you telling him things that require the gearbox to be removed?

I would use the rope trick to lock the engine.

Take out a spark plug, take that piston down to the bottom of its travel, then insert some rope or cord into the spar plug hole. Bring the piston back up and this will safely lock the engine to allow you to put a long bar on the front pulley nut. I think its needs to be about 100lb/ft ish, which is easy with a 3ft breaker bar.

To undo or do up, you simply need to consider which side of TDC you should lock the engine.

Alan if you remove the starter you can lock the flywheel with a screwdriver easily enough.
I tried choking, handbrake and footbrake on my old engine and it still didn't work.
I was advised against rope down the bore for risk of bending something.

[Alex]

AlanChatterton wrote:

But, if he's only changing the timing chain, why are you telling him things that require the gearbox to be removed?

I would use the rope trick to lock the engine.

Take out a spark plug, take that piston down to the bottom of its travel, then insert some rope or cord into the spar plug hole. Bring the piston back up and this will safely lock the engine to allow you to put a long bar on the front pulley nut. I think its needs to be about 100lb/ft ish, which is easy with a 3ft breaker bar.

To undo or do up, you simply need to consider which side of TDC you should lock the engine.

Alan if you remove the starter you can lock the flywheel with a screwdriver easily enough.
I tried choking, handbrake and footbrake on my old engine and it still didn't work.
I was advised against rope down the bore for risk of bending something.

[Toledo Man]

9077 wrote:

Mr Tickle?

Don't you remember the Mr Men? They were a series of children's books writtien by Roger Hargreaves and some were made into TV programmes which were narrated by Arthur Lowe (he of Dad's Army fame).

[thescrapman]

Like this

[JohnD]

Jamming the engine and using the starter motor can be dangerous, not just in bits of tool flying about, but to the engine.
This was the result of trying to force the cylinder head off with rope in the bore.

John

[Richard B]

I've used a 3/4" drive socket set with a T-bar and a 4' scaffold pole. Had to have a 6' length of 4x2 jammed in the block to stop the crank rotating.

This was as my nephew had taken the engine out of the car before trying to remove the nut.

If it's in situ then yes, in gear and someone stamping on the brakes!  

[Clive]

I had the clutch slip like that! and the clutch was good, not worn and a proper B+B (not current rebranded one)
Needed shock/impact to get it moving. Pressure is what I forgot on my earlier post. Bar, push and hammer with big (as in 4lb) hammer

[hyperhale]

nang wrote:

Others have used a tommy bar and spun th eengine on the starter. Think a heavy towel etc would be wise over that just in case......

This is my usual method. Usually working alone, I use a 1/2" socket with a long extension. and sit it on the floor on the RHS looking from the front. Just a quick flick of the starter and it's off !
Tony.[/quote]

Thanks all for the suggestions , much appreciated.

Went for Tony's suggestion using a 1/2 '' socket with extension wrapped in an old duvet just in case of problems , one quick flick on the starter and job done. I will go with locking the flywheel when I reassemble to torque up the nut.