Core plug ... k-seal?

[Greeks]

Got meself a weepy plug. Front end drivers side, neatly tucked behind the exhaust manifold (2.5 pi block).

Firstly, would it be wise to use something like this leak repair sealant http://www.kalimex.co.uk/our-products/k-seal

... or is that considered a bodge that leads to further problems.

If so, this looks like a bit of a bitch to get to, in fact the same as this one in Mike Bishop's blog


I think this is a 1.25 inch bucket type core plug. Any idea if these are a common fitment I can get at any car shop, or will I have to source from a Triumph specialist ... ie won't be able to do this weekend 🤔

[Hogie]

K-seal is good and works but if the core plug is badly corroded it may well bust out - and then you will need 'K-bung'.

Roger

[dinger]

Nope . take off the water pump .. allowing for the possibility of the long pipe being knackered and twist/lever the plug out . It looks bad and could give at any time .
As a bonus - removing the pump will allow examination of its condition and some access to the water jacket to clear local rubbish away to give some reassurance .

[RobPearce]

My experience with K-seal was decidedly unsatisfactory. Change the core plug - it's not the hard one (there's one right behind the manifold and some behind the engine back plate). They're readily available.

[Greeks]

Thanks guys ... to clarify, that's not my plug 🙂 No sign of corrosion on mine, but with a 2500 you can't get the access for a photo because the wing is in the way.

[Nick Jones]

If it's leaking through the plug (ie rusted from behind) I doubt K seal will hold it for long.  However if it's coming around the side of the plug (ie leaking between plug and block) the K seal might well do it.

Plug ought to be reasonably easy to find.  Any engine reconditioner should have then and possibly even a good old fashioned motor factors.  Make sure the block orifice is clean and free of dinks and gouges.  Some sort of sealant is a good idea, opinions vary.  I use a Loctite product, other use Araldite, Welseal and so on......

Good luck.....

Nick

[Dannyb]

K seal is great stuff to keep as an emergency but not for long term solution. It fixed my sons Fiesta head gasket problem for 3 months until he sold it.

[Greeks]

Well that all turned to liquid dribbly poo unfortunately.

Spoke to my local factors this morning and they said they had the right size 'welch plug' then got a call from my wife a couple of hours later saying the car had ejected its coolant into a car park. The leak seems to have got worse quite quickly 😲

To make matters worse, our POS Suzuki DDIS had been at a diesel specialists for a full week ... again ... as they continue to fail to diagnose why it takes 10 minutes to start it when cold. So I had to leave work early to get that so I could get my son from kindy. Albeit in limp home mode!!!!

It's a sad day as BOB was towed for the first time in our 10.5 year, 100,000km ownership   Now with a local mechanic to fix the plug. I guess at least I get my weekend back.

[Nick Jones]

Hmm.... sorry to hear that.

The real bad news might be that if one plug is in that state, the others might not be far behind.....  Were they all renewed when you rebuilt the engine?

You do use antifreeze don't you?  I know the freezing isn't much of an issue in your part of the world (!) but the anti-corrosive properties are.

As for the DDIS..... I gather that as Suzuki don't know much about diesel technology they are borrowing engines from others, including GM and Renault .  Good luck with that!  FWIW, if you are having problems with cold starting or the engine running out of puff before it should, this is quite often down to difficulty reaching or maintaining fuel pressure.  Dealers have a tendency to blame this on the high pressure pumps - which are horrifically expensive.  However, before condemning the HP pump, all fuel filters/strainers and any low pressure lift pump that might be fitted should to be checked/changed first.  I've a couple of friends, both with Nissan X trails (also Renault powered), who've managed to reduce their repair bills from > £2K to < £ 30 just by changing the fuel fuel filter - which is, remarkably, classed a vehicle lifetime item and does not appear in the service schedule.
I reckon that once I can no longer get my hands on a proper clockwork diesel I'll be returning to petrol engined cars.  I really can't be doing with all of the aggro that seems to to follow the common rail ones, especially those with DPFs.  Seems that in the real world my ancient soot monster may not be that much worse on emissions either.

Nick

PS, Dunno if this is the model you have but it seems you are not alone
http://www.suzuki-forums.com/2g-2006-vitara-grand-vitara/147169-2008-gv-1-9-ddis-cold.html

[Greeks]

Thanks Nick, you're a gent.

Yes, when the engine was built up in 2008 (~70,000km ago) the whole thing was tanked and immaculate. The guy who built it was an absolute stickler - sending bits back to the machine shop when they didn't do exactly as he specc'ed. I've always used decent coolant and kept it well, and it's never sludged the expansion tank ... but then are the core plugs actually good quality I wonder? Mechanic called to say they'd got everything ready but hadn't put manifolds back on as it was knock off time. He said the others looked ok, but might catch them first thing Monday and ask to get the row along the manifold all done together for peace of mind and pennies.

As for the DDIS ... if I had a dollar for every time i've seen that cold start thread on the search engine I'd buy a TR5 😀 The thing here is that it's not genuinely cold. The problem has slowly got worse over 20k km - as it got worse in winter I thought it may get better in summer, but it's got much worse! New MAP sensor today doesn't seem to have solved it, but the diesel specialists are refusing to charge me until they can fix it. Thanks for the tip on the filter, I will definitely pass that on to them as I think the X-Trail is also a F9Q - even though the fuel pressure check they've done said it was perfect. Apparently Aussie diesel is inferior and the euro-spec regulations cause big problems. Guess what the diesel mech's drive? Holden Commodores and Suzuki Cappucino!!!

[Nick Jones]

So you did everything right and it's still poked you in the eye...... how irritating.  If they've still got access it does seem wise to do the others while they are there as most of the labour is in the access and the plugs themselves are cheap.  

As for the diesel starting issues, most of my own experiences are with much older technology.  My A6 has had starting issues on and off for years.  It's not that it doesn't start, it's just that under some conditions it has to be wound over many times before firing and then puffs a great grey-white smoke cloud.

- Proper low temperatures (< 6ºC) it's always started first turn as the glow plugs kick in.  (unless the glow plugs are knacked)
- Hot start, always instant.
- >6º but < 20ºC was difficult for years.  
I cured various airleaks in the suction side of the system and leak back pipes. Helped a bit.... maybe. Unlikely to be applicable to yours.
Adjusted injection timing.  Advancing the static injection timing does help these, but unlikely to be possible with yours.
Frigged the glowplug system to come in earlier.  Does help alot, but I found it hard to come up with a frig that worked over the whole temperature range needed but didn't result in dead glowplugs every three months, so I unfrigged it again.

The "cure" (so far) was found by accident.  Another little issue that has dogged the car for about 8 years was slow cranking speeds.  The battery died and I thought that would resolve it.  It didn't.  Cleaned up all the various connections in the high current wiring (there alot as the battery lives under the back seat).  No win.  Contemplated changing the starter, but it's very expensive and ridiculously difficult to access, so as the thing did always start in the end I decided to ignore it.  Fast forward about 6 years to last autumn and I had a couple of no starts.  First one I was pointing down hill and gravity started it.  Second one I had to blag a jump, at which point I noticed that it turned over much faster than usual and fired right up.  Bought another new battery, a Bosch one with the highest CCA I could find that would fit in the hole.  It now spins over about double the speed and starts more or less instantly, whatever.  The problem was a crap battery all along.

Moral - good cranking speed starts diesels better.  May be relevant, maybe not.

Going back to your common rail diesel, when it comes to cold start, the fuel pressure question is not whether it gets to the correct pressure when running (which it clearly does), but how fast it gets to the necessary minimum pressure when cranking.  That is where the condition of the fuel filter comes in and also the lift pump.

Best of luck.......  I can do you a great deal on an Audi A8.  It's a shed but it starts 🙂

Nick

[mikeyb]

re the other plugs, I'd agree with Nick - they may look good on the outside but will be going on the inside - you don't want to have that manifold twice!  Dont forget the small one on the back of the head.

See my blog for experience!  (Edit - I see youalready had!)

http://triumphandadversity.blogspot.co.uk/#!/2013/04/core-issues-again.html

[Greeks]

Quoted from mikeyb

re the other plugs, I'd agree with Nick - they may look good on the outside but will be going on the inside - you don't want to have that manifold twice!  Dont forget the small one on the back of the head.

See my blog for experience!  (Edit - I see youalready had!)

http://triumphandadversity.blogspot.co.uk/#!/2013/04/core-issues-again.html

Yeah, not sure how easy it would be to get to the one on the back of the head with a saloon, though???

[andy thompson]

Easy once you take the head off........ got that T shirt

[Greeks]

Quoted from andy thompson

Easy once you take the head off........ got that T shirt

Maybe I'll just fill the whole bloody area with quiksteel instead 🙂

[Greeks]

Quoted from Nick Jones

So you did everything right and it's still poked you in the eye...... how irritating.  If they've still got access it does seem wise to do the others while they are there as most of the labour is in the access and the plugs themselves are cheap.  

As for the diesel starting issues, most of my own experiences are with much older technology.  My A6 has had starting issues on and off for years.  It's not that it doesn't start, it's just that under some conditions it has to be wound over many times before firing and then puffs a great grey-white smoke cloud.

- Proper low temperatures (< 6ºC) it's always started first turn as the glow plugs kick in.  (unless the glow plugs are knacked)
- Hot start, always instant.
- >6º but < 20ºC was difficult for years.  
I cured various airleaks in the suction side of the system and leak back pipes. Helped a bit.... maybe. Unlikely to be applicable to yours.
Adjusted injection timing.  Advancing the static injection timing does help these, but unlikely to be possible with yours.
Frigged the glowplug system to come in earlier.  Does help alot, but I found it hard to come up with a frig that worked over the whole temperature range needed but didn't result in dead glowplugs every three months, so I unfrigged it again.

The "cure" (so far) was found by accident.  Another little issue that has dogged the car for about 8 years was slow cranking speeds.  The battery died and I thought that would resolve it.  It didn't.  Cleaned up all the various connections in the high current wiring (there alot as the battery lives under the back seat).  No win.  Contemplated changing the starter, but it's very expensive and ridiculously difficult to access, so as the thing did always start in the end I decided to ignore it.  Fast forward about 6 years to last autumn and I had a couple of no starts.  First one I was pointing down hill and gravity started it.  Second one I had to blag a jump, at which point I noticed that it turned over much faster than usual and fired right up.  Bought another new battery, a Bosch one with the highest CCA I could find that would fit in the hole.  It now spins over about double the speed and starts more or less instantly, whatever.  The problem was a crap battery all along.

Moral - good cranking speed starts diesels better.  May be relevant, maybe not.

Going back to your common rail diesel, when it comes to cold start, the fuel pressure question is not whether it gets to the correct pressure when running (which it clearly does), but how fast it gets to the necessary minimum pressure when cranking.  That is where the condition of the fuel filter comes in and also the lift pump.

Best of luck.......  I can do you a great deal on an Audi A8.  It's a shed but it starts 🙂

Nick

To be honest we're trying to sell the Zuki - too small for our needs - and aiming for a dual cab ute so we can do bigger trips, fit the motorbike in the back, carry big things without needing a tralier etc ...so as soon as this issue's fixed it's for sale.

Have been out driving the thing today trying to get the regen. burn to reset the warning light, but it goes away after speed, but then once the speed drops again it comes back on 😲

I'd already tried hooking up an extra battery to add some CCA ... no luck.

I looked up fuel filter issues and found a fair bit, apparently there's one in the tank as well which is a pain to access. Good tip Nick, thanks. Any idea if the x-trails needed the tank filter?

[Nick Jones]

The X-Trail filter in question was outside the tank, under the bonnet.  There is probably a strainer in the tank, though I'm not sure that the X-trail has an in-tank pump, but this wasn't investigated in either case and both are still working (one has done ~ 40k since being told by the dealer that he definitely needed a new HP pump).

LP pump /strainer looks like a PITA job on the Suzuki (I'm assuming Grand Vitara?) requiring the tank to be dropped down, though I did find a video where some bloke had just chopped hole in the floor above the tank (with an axe it looked like!) to gain access.  Not the recommended method!

Nick

[Greeks]

Great. Well it's cheap enough to try the filter so I'll be onto that!

[Greeks]

... well fuel filters are cheap, but it didn't solve the problem   Back to the drawing board.

[Nick Jones]

Poo.....

Nick

[Greeks]

Quoted from Nick Jones

Poo.....

Nick

Yeah ... even worse was that when i told the diesel specialist they said they'd already ruled it out by temporarily bypassing the filter as one of the tests.  

I think they're running out of things to check now. Maybe there's some problem with the ECU.

[Greeks]

... well eventually a compression test was performed. The diesel specialist was conviced this wouldn't be the issue as the engine only had 100,000 miles on it.

One of the cylinders took 10 seconds to just about get to 100psi 🙁

We are most certainly not amused.

[Nick Jones]

Oh poo!  That's just rubbish....... 🙁

Maybe "only" a valve problem, or even a nearly blocked inlet port.  Modern diesels can suffer appalling inlet tract coking issues due to the aggressive use of EGR.  What were the others like?

Going back to petrol when I can't get hold of old school clockwork diesels any more.

Nick

[Greeks]

The others weren't really very good, either.

We're not prepared to spend any more time and money now, so someone else can have it cheap.

[andy thompson]

You need a nice reliable TD5