Davemate Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Apart from the gas,what's the difference between gas and non gas mig weldersI am thinking of getting a welder to weld up a roll cage and to do some bodywork and a bit of chassis work.I know arc is a bit to powerful for bodywork which is whyI am thinking about a mig.Screwfix do a non gas for £99 and a gas one for £129 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mioraet Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 No gas is messy in my opinion, very smoky and can splatter a lot and lots of clean up after. The wire is expensive too. With gas gives cleaner and probably stronger welds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 1344 wrote:Apart from the gas,what's the difference between gas and non gas mig weldersI am thinking of getting a welder to weld up a roll cage and to do some bodywork and a bit of chassis work.I know arc is a bit to powerful for bodywork which is whyI am thinking about a mig.Screwfix do a non gas for £99 and a gas one for £129Spend a bit more money and get a decent gassed MIG. Of late screwfix have been selling down to a price, and it shows a bit.There has been plenty of discussion on here of peoples experiences of various welders.Go for one of the "no-rental" bottles (the place in St Helens seemed to be best value, bigger bottle, higher pressure, same price) and you will produce results that you will be proud to show off after a bit of practise.CheersColin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferny Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 On the plus side, you don't have to worry about the wind when welding with gas-less. But you can probably use gas-less wire in a gas mig? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny-Jimbo Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Usually yes Ferny, you can use gasless wire in a gas MIG. As everyone says gasless is messy, and in my experience, much harder to control the weld. I would also advise to spend as much as you possibly can - cheap welders are almost always rubbish. Switchable controls rather than dial controls don't give enough varience in current and wire feed control too.Best one I've seen is a brand I canna remember now, but it's roughly the size of a large toaster (ie, hand carry), can weld mild, stainless and aluminium, can be gassed or non gassed, but all the controls are digital, and can be changed in 0.1 increments. It also can run through a normal 13 amp socket - but at nearly £650 a pop they ain't cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6Craig Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I bought a second hand Sip Weldmate. Struggled to find a big gas bottle so using them little disposables from halfrauds, machine mart etc. As a rough guestimate, I reckon I get about 2 linear metres per bottle. So as you can imagine, doing large amounts of welding soon adds up! But I'd still stick with a gassed welder. I've taken a while to pick it up but now I'm getting somewhere I'm very happy with the results. For your roll cage you will want nice welds to show your mates as you can't slap a load of seam sealer on!I think you can use a gassed mig with gassless wire. Just need to do something with the polarity? :-sOh and if you do opt to use the little bottles, DO NOT waste your time with the halfords regulator. It will leak. Just buy the one from machine mart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 184 wrote:I bought a second hand Sip Weldmate. Struggled to find a big gas bottle so using them little disposables from halfrauds, machine mart etc.I get through a 15kg reel to a Distillers pub size CO2 bottle. You must have a place near you that supply one. You are throwing money away with the disposable bottles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Hello Dave, I suggest you visit this site which is very friendly and you will get sound advice from professional welders. http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/The one thing that concerns me is the welding of a roll cage, if you have little or no welding experience. A nice looking weld is not necessarily a strong one, penetration is all important which a low specification welder may not have enough power for?Alec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferny Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Craig - also sounds like you've either still got a leak or you're using too much gas. You only need a small amount flowing if you're not outside in a breeze. I was getting similar or worse use out of a Halfords bottle and found the regularity wasn't forming a tight seal. I think it was the O ring but can't remember now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny-Jimbo Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Pi-Man is right - if you're gonna be putting your life in a roll-cage you've built yourself (photos of mine on the way tomorrow - I haven't forgotten!), you've got to already be able to weld really. You can't just sputter it it together and then fill in the holes.Also, in my experience gasless will usually be quite a porous weld as the flux core just doesn't do a job as well as gas. On a roll-cage you certainly do not want porosity in a weld. Porosity will make a weld weak as all the walls in the bubbles will crack - in my expeience, sometimes a weld looks stong, feels strong, but as soon as you but any real load in it it falls apart.Afterall, you pulling on it is a few kG. When a car is upside down at 100mph, it's equivelent to a few tonnes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davemate Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 Fear not,I used to weld for a living,but it was all site work with monster arc weldersassembling building frames, bridges and fire escapes so finnesse was not needed.I left the game over twenty years ago so things have moved on and I have been totally left behind.Up until now I have been using a gas mig from my mates hire shopbut its time I thought about getting my own but funds are limited and the no gas migsare a little cheaper,I may well just continue to ponce off my mate,it's just it goesout on hire quite often, normally when I want it !customers ---ruddy pain in the ar�*% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 what kind of ampage and duty cycle should I be looking for when choosing a new welder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrookster Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 1344 wrote:Fear not,I used to weld for a living,but it was all site work with monster arc weldersassembling building frames, bridges and fire escapes so finnesse was not needed.I left the game over twenty years ago so things have moved on and I have been totally left behind.Up until now I have been using a gas mig from my mates hire shopbut its time I thought about getting my own but funds are limited and the no gas migsare a little cheaper,I may well just continue to ponce off my mate,it's just it goesout on hire quite often, normally when I want it !customers ---ruddy pain in the ar�*%What type of welder you go for really depends on what you are planning on welding. If you are only planning on doing a rollcage, then to my mind surely you would be better of hiring an arc welder for a weekend (HSS etc) rather than using a mig. Mig has the bigger advantage in that it can weld the bodywork as well, due to lower power, where a conventional arc struggles.If it is a Mig you are looking for, I would likewise advise a gas one, gassless migs ARE better for welding outdoors, however they create rather messy welds.ant_8u - again depends on what you are wanting to weld! The lower amp spec usually relates to how thin a piece of metal you can weld, on our cars the lower the better :) The upper limit relates to how thick a piece of metal you weld with a particular machine, and the duty cycle tells you what the highest ampage you can weld continously is, (this is lower than the max ampage normally, in simple terms means if you weld at max power you will have to keep stopping to allow the welder to cool down). Not an issue unless you are planning on welding thick metal, or just learn patience :PCheers,Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Thanks PhilI'll only be using it for this, and subsequent restoration projectsFrom what I've read so far around 30ish amps is about the right setting for sheet steelHow does this sound?I guess I'd probably want a machine with at least 150amps to ensure a decent duty cycle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I used to have a Clarke 150 Turbo for bodywork. This was fine, but I would not have anything smaller. I upgraded to a Nu-Tool 255 when I started repairing a Land-Rover 109" chassis, lots of 3mm steel. :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 is 30amp about right?I've been offered one at 60-140amp but I don't think that's low enough for a triumph is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davemate Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 My mate has an arc in his shop that never goes out I'll use that for the cage,I'll look into a small gas mig for the bodywork at a later date Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrookster Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 1903 wrote:is 30amp about right?I've been offered one at 60-140amp but I don't think that's low enough for a triumph is it?60 amp is far to high to be welding sheet steel, 25/30 amp is far better. Have a read through the following link, in fact full site is worth a good perusal!!http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/buying.htmCheers,Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Thanks, I've just found the welding forum about a week agoStill trying to take it all in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6Craig Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Also consider your fusebox at home. Be terribly annoying if you keep on tripping fuses! My little hobby Mig is fine, much bigger and I'd need to change of the MCB on the consumer unit I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Hello Craig,I don't know if it's generally known but domestic circuit breakers are normally 'B' type, such as 32b. You get others that are more tolerant of surge so look for 'C' or 'D' of the same current carrying capacity.Alec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6Craig Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Quote:Hello Craig,I don't know if it's generally known but domestic circuit breakers are normally 'B' type, such as 32b. You get others that are more tolerant of surge so look for 'C' or 'D' of the same current carrying capacity.AlecCheers Alec, Ill certainly bare it in mind should i upgrade welders and have issues in the future! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stagmuffin Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 duty cycle refers to the time in minutes that a welding plant will run continualy eg, 60 % d/cycle = 6mins out of every ten at a given amperage 90% =9 mins.sheet metal on a car a mc with in the region of 130 amp running gas with 0.6 m/steel wire will cope admirably for your needs.gassless mig is going to make you :'( :'( my advice is dont go there .if it was any good industry would have used it years ago and saved vast summs on expensive shielding gasses.welding a roll cage the materials involved will require welding with a higher end unit and because of the deposition rates and voltage/amp control on low end migs the best alternative would be MMA arc weling with 12gauge rods /2.5 mm at between 90 and 125 amps depending on position and plate tube thickness. the deposition is lower and control better as weld speed is reduced and the penetration should be better especialy if you are not to experienced.good luck steve............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marktheherald Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Love your Avatar stagmuffin...Classic Calvin, one of my favourites! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stagmuffin Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 marktheherald wrote:Love your Avatar stagmuffin...Classic Calvin, one of my favourites!why thank you, he kinda follows me wherever i go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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