Jason Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 Roger, I've just put some old "Notes on the Lucas PI System" on my Blog, fairly extensive and worth keeping - help yourself :-)Caroline/Barry read the bit about pumps - low current consumption is the key! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTRoger Posted May 27, 2008 Author Share Posted May 27, 2008 Been searching the web for Bosch pumps. As I used to work for a Bosch technical centre I know there are many Bosch pumps available, all having different specs. I first found 0580 254 909 as a suitable pump for PI, though after some more research I found this pump only delivers 5.25bar. As the PI system needs 7.1 bar I guess we should use another type of pump. 0580 254 044 should give 7.25bar and up for the job. Anyone got numbers from their Bosch pumps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Does this help? http://www.fuelsystem.co.uk/injection.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 GTRoger wrote:What's the blue thing on pic one? Blue thingy = Fuel Filter as supplied by Prestige. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTRoger Posted May 27, 2008 Author Share Posted May 27, 2008 Richard_B wrote:Blue thingy = Fuel Filter as supplied by Prestige.Ahhh! Can't see the point of having a second filter behind the pump to be honest. I guess one big filter (like yours behind pump) before pump will do. Thanks for the link Jason. Will give a ring to my ex colleagues and see if they can find out about pump specs. Obviously you can't use any random Bosch pump as found from a scrapyard. Will buy a new one anyway to avoid trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTRoger Posted May 29, 2008 Author Share Posted May 29, 2008 Just found this.http://www.leicestertr.co.uk/Part%20Numbers.htmPlease note there's an error in the bosch part numbers.All pumps should start with 0 580 ... ... instead of 0850 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTRoger Posted May 29, 2008 Author Share Posted May 29, 2008 Another error.... Fuel filter number should be 0450 905 021!! Despite the typing errors, it's usefull info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shenderson Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 [quote=Caroline]Is it worth mentioning the pump is making ooOOh ooOOh noises which sounds like the fuel in the tank is sloshing and the pump is getting it in surges. I think we'lve always had this problem but assumed it was a poorly baffled tank, not the pump struggling.quote]This is a symptom of a blocked fuel tank breather. As the fuel level drops, air enters the tank via the breather to fill the space vacated by the fuel. If the breather is blocked, air cannot enter and a vacuum is created in the tank. The surging noise from the pump is because it is struggling to pump fuel while overcoming the vacuum. Hence the pump overheats, the fuel inside it vapourises and the engine stops!Next time it occurs, open the fuel filler cap. If the breather is blocked air will rush in as you open the cap, releasing the vacuum. Once the pump cools down you can continue a few more miles until it occurs again.CheersSteve H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beans Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 GTRoger wrote: ...btw, this is it! My PI powerplant 8) Hopefully going in next weekend ...And how's progress with the engine swap, or will I still be able to give a helping hand when I return from Britain next week :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 The saga continues...Thank you for the kind words of advice at the National in Hatton from Andy Roberts and Alan Chatterton, and thanks Alan for the loan of the fuel pump. It was duly fitted in anticipation of the 2000 Register Nationals at Pickering this weekend. It was raining too much on Friday (chickens!) so Barry set off on Sat. Three breakdowns due to overheating pump and three hours later he was only in York so came home via three more breakdowns, one outside a church during a wedding causing chaos and blocking everything from tractors to lorries. Exactly the sort of car that should break down outside a wedding though, I think!Generally speaking if the car is running at low rpm or idling for a long time (e.g. traffic around York ring road) then the fuel pump overheats. Even Alan's. On open road it's apparently fine. Given we've changed the pump I think I can rule the pump out of this, perhaps. I have also discovered that the Bosch ones don't work on estates because they need to be more gravity fed than the estate fuel tank allows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy thompson Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Holley Red Lifter pump http://www.holley.com/12-801-1.asp (sucker) feeding small surge tank with 10mm outlet feeding bosch Volvo pump. Fit and forget forever even in 40+ deg C commuter traffic........ if you spend a squillion on a PI estate ( I have too) you should at least be able to drive it.... :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I like your thinking Andy! Where do you squeeze in the surge tank on yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy thompson Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 In reality the surge tank can be a modified Lucas CAV filter... the 6-7 PSI that the holley delivers is plenty to completely iradicate any vapour lock or starvation and the lucas filter has enough inlets outlets to include excess fuel return lines etc just like a swirl pot. It will easily cope with a few PSI. TBH I have not fitted the system to my PI estate yet as its still in primer! But the plumbing is basic and the theory is tested by my PI Mk1 saloon... a Red Holley or similar sucks/moves LOADS of fuel... possibly too much!!! Face it the Lucas pump was the MAIN reason Pi's got a bad rap.... they are no better and 30+ years older now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I love this bit of info from the holley link you sent:Quote:Not designed or recommended for use with fuel injection systemsI assume you know better than they! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy thompson Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I just use it to supply a fuel injection pump.... everything downstream of the bosch HP pump is a whole different ballgame.....Trust me it works just great for the last 7 years with zero maintenance in the harshest conditions....gave up that silly lucas pump sentimental claptrap a long time ago..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Listen to Andy..... :) this is the way to do it! Works on BIG pumps too........Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Hello Andy, "Face it the Lucas pump was the MAIN reason Pi's got a bad rap...." Most of the bad reputation when the cars were new was due to garages not understanding the system and blaming it for any poor running. Mostly, nothing whatsoever to do with the injection.Alec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy thompson Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Ok fair enough.... but in Oz it was the pump that was the thing that stranded most and I seem to remember most of my poor starting, poor running or general lack of top end grunt was when running a Lucas pump... I love the pump but its drive method and mounting position as standard leaves plenty to be desired especially on modern high volatile fuels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 Hello Andy, certainly your ambient is higher than ours so puts more of a strain on the system especially, as you say, with modern petrol.When I built my last car (with rallying in mind) and heeding the Lucas fuel pump reputation I went for a slightly different 'cure'. Two pumps on a service and stand-by status. I also used a relay supply to ensure full voltage for them. In about eight years I only had to change over once, London streets in high summer, so I am a lot more confident of teh 'unreliable' Lucas pump.Alec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 How did you plumb them in piman? It almost looks like you have 2 PRVs in there? Will one pump "through" the other or do you need some magic in there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Hello Jason, no just the one PRV, but a shut off valve on each pump outlet , with a micro switch to control which pump can run. The idea of the valve is to prevent the pump short circuiting through the idle pump.Alec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 I'm having trouble understanding that - indulge me with an idiot's walk through, the works cars ran two pumps but also bendix pumps to transfer fuel from the bag tanks to the main tank and an aweful lot of plumbing so I know it can be done but I never understood their set up either!I like the idea of a redundant system - can you swap pumps from the drivers seat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Hello Jason, from the fuel filter the line is teed off to each pump inlet, and out to a valve on each outlet line to another tee to the PRV. i.e. they are in parallel. The idea of the shut off valve is to stop fuel from the running pump going back into the stand-by pump and out to the suction line and tank. As set up, I need to change over valves manually so it cannot be switched on the run. If check valves were used instead of manual valves then they could be selected on the run.Alec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Thanks Alec, now I get it :) When I come to tidy up the PI plumbing I may well have a go at this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Barry stripped a couple of fuel pumps recently. One had so much play in it it's not surprising it wasn't doing well on the car. I've not paid a huge amount of attention, but he's clearly learning lots about the things from the basic components. A new PRV is on order, as we now think that's the issue. Only 37 days to get the car ready for over 2500 miles... To be continued... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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