Power upgrade

[Shepsy]

Hi. I could be looking for a power upgrade for my Mk2 vitesse.

Can anyone recommend the best way to do this?

Many thanks.

Pete.

[Clive]

What are you trying to achieve? The answers will rely on this.

(ie you want to go sprinting, better midrange "power", wan't to pull a caravan etc etc)

[thescrapman]

Quickest and probably cheapest is to fit a 2.5 engine.

More torque and bit more power (assuming you get a S or Carbed PI engine)

 

[Richard B]

Yes to 2.5, but you might need a 3.63 diff as it does not rev as high. Also the gearbox will be more stressed if OE.

[Nick Jones]

Are you sure your existing engine is the right one (ie not saloon engine) and is fully fit.  They should go pretty well as standard.

Otherwise, as Clive says - what is you goal and what do you want to use the car for.  Think carefully before going 2.5, the extra torque exploits the inherent weakness of the transmission!

 

Nick

[Clive]

5 minutes ago, Nick Jones said:

Are you sure your existing engine is the right one (ie not saloon engine) and is fully fit.  They should go pretty well as standard.

Otherwise, as Clive says - what is you goal and what do you want to use the car for.  Think carefully before going 2.5, the extra torque exploits the inherent weakness of the transmission!

 

Nick

I was going to mention that a good tune up after a thorough check over may give good results. 

[Shepsy]

21 hours ago, Clive said:

What are you trying to achieve? The answers will rely on this.

(ie you want to go sprinting, better midrange "power", wan't to pull a caravan etc etc)

Hi Clive.

 I may be wearing rose tinted glasses but I remember my Mk2 vitesse convertible back in the mid 70’s as being quite nippy and not struggling to go up hills. My current car has been owned by an elderly gentleman and probably “pussyfooted” around for the past 25years. It doesn’t seem to have the “snap “ of my previous one so I’m trying to improve it.

 I have it booked in for a rolling road tune with Peter Burgess in March so l’m hoping for some improvement.

 In the meantime, I’m trying to think ahead.

Pete.

[Shepsy]

13 hours ago, thescrapman said:

Quickest and probably cheapest is to fit a 2.5 engine.

More torque and bit more power (assuming you get a S or Carbed PI engine)

 

Hi thescrapman Ok. I have been looking out for various 2.5 units. A good one seems to be extremely rare. Do you have any suggestions where one could be obtained from?

Pete.

[Shepsy]

4 hours ago, Richard B said:

Yes to 2.5, but you might need a 3.63 diff as it does not rev as high. Also the gearbox will be more stressed if OE.

Richard B.

 I have the option of a 3.63 diff available.

What does the 2.5 unit rev to?

Pete.

[Shepsy]

4 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

Are you sure your existing engine is the right one (ie not saloon engine) and is fully fit.  They should go pretty well as standard.

Otherwise, as Clive says - what is you goal and what do you want to use the car for.  Think carefully before going 2.5, the extra torque exploits the inherent weakness of the transmission!

 

Nick

Hi  Nick.

Yes, the engine is an original with relatively low mileage… just under 47,000mls. It just seems sluggish , Do you any ideas?

Pete.

[Clive]

I would check everything over. In particular the distributor timing. 

If yiou have access to a timing light disconnect the vacuum advance, and get somebody to increase teh revs from idle up to around 3000rpm. You should see the advance increase all the way. Then suck on teh distributor vacuum to make sume that works OK.

Then take it for a drive, keep advancing the timing until the engine just pinks under light load. Then back off slightly. That should be the best position, and may liven the engine up considerably. 

A rollimng road session will be great to get the final few % out of the car. A mk2 vitesse is not sluggish. But back in the day they were a quick motor. Today their performance is pretty average compared to other cars on the road. 

[Tim Bancroft]

I'd take the view that the car should be gone through:

Set the valve clearances at 10 thou. use the rule of 13

Dizzy check as Clive states. 

Check the plugs, if badly sooted up, renew and adjust the carb's mixture, then balance them. Check the air filters and check to see you are getting full throttle.

[Matt306]

The mileage is low but engine is old and these engines weren't designed with long life in mind the car would usually rot away anyway.

Have a look at the engine and do a compression test. Cheap and easy to do. Check the numbers across all cylinders. A low figure may indicate a stuck valve or piston ring wear. 

I had a 1300 engine with broken piston rings . 

If you wanted a saloon engine should have brought a saloon they are a lot less pretty though. An engine swap has its own pitfalls... what's the history of the new engine will it bring problems with the transmission as above.  All that money could just be spent of getting a well sorted vitesse engine.

 

 

It all sounds like it needs a good going over. At least it's not body work.

 

[glang]

12 hours ago, Clive said:

Mk2 vitesse is not sluggish. But back in the day they were a quick motor. Today their performance is pretty average compared to other cars on the road. 

Promo back in the day was: Faster accelerating than an E type Jag!......0 - 30mph.

[Rutty]

12 hours ago, Shepsy said:

Hi  Nick.

Yes, the engine is an original with relatively low mileage… just under 47,000mls. It just seems sluggish , Do you any ideas?

Pete.

Are you suffering the diesel effect!

I certainly suffered it when I started driving petrol cars again after many years of driving diesels, I was driving my Vitesse like a diesel changing gear to early and not Reving the engine hard enough. A point that was pointed out to me on a RBRR.

[glang]

14 hours ago, Shepsy said:

Yes, the engine is an original with relatively low mileage… just under 47,000mls. It just seems sluggish , Do you any ideas?

What diff ratio have you got currently? Maybe its been changed to a 3.27 great for cruising but but not acceleration... 

Funny what Rutty says as I drive my Vitesse like a diesel using the low down torque so I can get into 4th as quick as possible and save my gearbox!

[Shepsy]

2 hours ago, Rutty said:

Are you suffering the diesel effect!

I certainly suffered it when I started driving petrol cars again after many years of driving diesels, I was driving my Vitesse like a diesel changing gear to early and not Reving the engine hard enough. A point that was pointed out to me on a RBRR.

Hi Rutty,

revving the car hard through each gear so not suffering the diesel effect - but that’s a good point which could have been ov👍

[Shepsy]

11 minutes ago, glang said:

What diff ratio have you got currently? Maybe its been changed to a 3.27 great for cruising but but not acceleration... 

Funny what Rutty says as I drive my Vitesse like a diesel using the low down torque so I can get into 4th as quick as possible and save my gearbox!

Hi gland.

 The current diff is a 3.89. I’ve counted the rotation to confirm it.

Thanks.

Pete.

[Shepsy]

2 hours ago, Matt306 said:

The mileage is low but engine is old and these engines weren't designed with long life in mind the car would usually rot away anyway.

Have a look at the engine and do a compression test. Cheap and easy to do. Check the numbers across all cylinders. A low figure may indicate a stuck valve or piston ring wear. 

I had a 1300 engine with broken piston rings . 

If you wanted a saloon engine should have brought a saloon they are a lot less pretty though. An engine swap has its own pitfalls... what's the history of the new engine will it bring problems with the transmission as above.  All that money could just be spent of getting a well sorted vitesse engine.

 

 

It all sounds like it needs a good going over. At least it's not body work.

 

Matt306.

I will check everything as suggested.

Many thanks.

Pete.

[Shepsy]

14 hours ago, Clive said:

I would check everything over. In particular the distributor timing. 

If yiou have access to a timing light disconnect the vacuum advance, and get somebody to increase teh revs from idle up to around 3000rpm. You should see the advance increase all the way. Then suck on teh distributor vacuum to make sume that works OK.

Then take it for a drive, keep advancing the timing until the engine just pinks under light load. Then back off slightly. That should be the best position, and may liven the engine up considerably. 

A rollimng road session will be great to get the final few % out of the car. A mk2 vitesse is not sluggish. But back in the day they were a quick motor. Today their performance is pretty average compared to other cars on the road. 

Hi Clive.

I’ll go through everything as suggested- prior to my rolling road session with Peter Burgess. It will be interesting to find out the engines actual output as it may even be a case that I’m expecting too much from it.

Many thanks.

Pete.

[Shepsy]

4 hours ago, Tim Bancroft said:

I'd take the view that the car should be gone through:

Set the valve clearances at 10 thou. use the rule of 13

Dizzy check as Clive states. 

Check the plugs, if badly sooted up, renew and adjust the carb's mixture, then balance them. Check the air filters and check to see you are getting full throttle.

Tim.

Some good points there, I’ll recheck everything including the throttle setting 👍

[Matt306]

I wouldn't bother spending in a rolling road unless u have money to burn. I can't imagine many of them know how to balance twin carbs.

I would buy a simple carb balancer and an exhaust sensor or a carbtune plug.

You can use them again and again

 

[yorkshire_spam]

1 hour ago, Matt306 said:

I can't imagine many of them know how to balance twin carbs

Peter knows how, worked wonders on mine

[TRTOM2498]

On 04/11/2023 at 21:18, Shepsy said:

Richard B.

 I have the option of a 3.63 diff available.

What does the 2.5 unit rev to?

Pete.

A well sorted one, carefully built with good quality components will see 7500rpm regularly.

[thescrapman]

On 04/11/2023 at 21:13, Shepsy said:

Hi thescrapman Ok. I have been looking out for various 2.5 units. A good one seems to be extremely rare. Do you have any suggestions where one could be obtained from?

Pete.

Will keep eyes and ears open for you.