my clutch has failed yet again

[Fizzy]

well im quite severely pissed off. this is the most pissed off i've been with my car since i've had it. i put a new clutch in about 3 or 4 months ago, and yesterday while driving the pedal started going heavy and felt 'gritty' at the end of its travel, then started rattling. by the time i cut my journey short and got home, engaging the clutch was very hard work and resulted in lots of bizzarre noises. it still engages, but sounds like its going to disintergrate at any moment.

like i said, this was a clutch from canleys thats been in about 3 or 4 months, and the clutch before that, that came from motofacts, was only in about 8 months. as you can imagine, its one of those jobs thats starting to piss me off. i also had to replace the clutch when i brought the car, though i did know about that when i brought it. i would rather ANYTHING else went wrong, i hate doing the clutch.

is there anything that could be going on that could be munching my clutches ? i've had the car 2 years, this is a job i should have only done once. or am i just unlucky ? do canleys do a warranty on clutches ?

off to the garage i guess to start dismantling my car again....

[Deleted User]

If the symptom is the centre of the clutch being ripped free from the friction ring, then the root cause of the problem is probably (99%) a distorted engine back plate.

With the gearbox out, it's an easy replacement - remove the flywheel and then the back plate and just fit another (flat) one and refit the flywheel etc.

[Clive]

I am sure canleys will be of assistance.......but the double failure is a worry. Either the quality of the clutches is poor, and if it is the spring tension in the "fingers" then that is definately the case, or if fingers have broken.
The centre breaking out of the clutch can be down to a bent engine backplate, but you normally loose all drive when that happens. (ie at traffic lights in Angers)
Hope it works out...

[Fizzy]

the clutch from motofacts, a QH one, the fingers went on it. which is why i chanegd to oen from canley's. i suspect they dont get many returned clutches, so im guessing its something to do with my car and not their clutch kit. what makes it worse is that 2 weeks ago i sold a spare clutch thats had been sitting about for months.

last night was the first time i have thought about selling the car. i went to my mates, and he reminded how much of a nice capri i could buy with the money. but i think i'm winning the battle to convince myself to keep it.......just.....

[thescrapman]

I've got a selection of previously enjoyed ones with plenty of life left in them if you are desperate to get it mobile again.

And a spare backplate.

Cheers

Colin

[Fizzy]

thanks for that, i'll let you know as i think im going to take the opportunity to open the gearbox up and replace whatever it was that came out in bits with the oil last tiem i changed it. so not too sure how long im going to have it off the road at the moment, not too long hopefully as its my only car.

if i get to the clutch and one part is clearly to blame, is it acceptable practice to just replace the bit thats broken, or is it better to replace the whole lot, even if it looks good ? its had only a couple of hundred miles on it.

[Fizzy]

also, guess i should mention it, but i topped up the gearbox oil and clutch fluid yesterday before it broke. can't really see how it would affect anything though. the clutch fluid was almost full anyway.

[Velocita Rosso]

Post when out, what exactly has broken when you take it apart. That will give more indication whats going wrong and where

[Fizzy]

yeah i'll get some photos when its out.

[Gt6s]

Silly question but , did you change the thrust bearing ?

[jonnyk5614]

yamaha_fizzy wrote:

is there anything that could be going on that could be munching my clutches ?

Errr, you??? ;D

[thescrapman]

Another thought, if it has has broken the fingers off, it could be that the slave has been re-positioned in the past to compensate for the crinkly ring thingy dropping out, which has been fixed, so now the slave is pushing too far on the cover breaking them off.

A picture is going to paint a thousand words here, so get out and get stripping.

Cheers

Colin

[Clive]

Now theres a thought.....isn't the thrust bearing carrier different on some boxes, probably the coil spring version? I may be totally wrong, but it rings a bell. Or even th eslave cylinder bore? if the stroke is too long that will (may) damage the cover. Lots to think about/photograph/measure!

[Pete Lewis]

could it be the spigot bearing in the flywheel is missing  ??
a coil cover has a thinner throwout and a thicker linnings
pictures tell a thousand words get some as soon as possible please
the pin that engages in the  throwout should run along the centre line of the nose , too much offset and the throwout gets pitched and you get an offset load on the fingers.all down to slave position and arm angles affecting the leverage

just some thoughts     Pete

[Fizzy]

i've stripped the car out ready to hopefully get the gearbox out tomorrow. after biking home from work :(

is it possible to overfill the gearbox oil and for it to create a problem ?

[drofgum]

Fizzy,
The problem you describe doesn't sound like oil on the clutch which is the only problem I can think of one would get by overfilling. I am more inclined to believe there is some under-lying mechanical fault causing your troubles. A bent rear engine plate causing mis-alignment between engine and gearbox, or hanging the box from the center of the clutch when installing sound more likely to give your problem.
Keep at it. You won't find that a Capri drives like a Spitfire.
                                                                           Good luck,
                                                                           Paul

[GT6Craig]

Quote:

You won't find that a Capri drives like a Spitfire.
                                                                           Good luck,
                                                                           Paul

hear hear!

[Fizzy]

1317 wrote:

Fizzy,
or hanging the box from the center of the clutch when installing sound more likely to give your problem.

                                                                           Good luck,
                                                                           Paul

can you explain this process please ? is there a specific way  it should all be put back together ?

[neilnaz]

Fizzy when I had my first Spitfire some 18 years ago I changed the gearbox putting in a re-conditioned one in place of a faulty box that didn't like staying in 3rd gear. When I changed the box in a B&B carpark I must have mis-aligned the input shaft into the clutch or pulled the gearbox and engine together using the bolts so bending the engine back-plate. I wasn't aware of having caused any problems and drove the car subsequently. I had two clutches fail within a few thousand miles and took the car to a garage. They diagnosed a warped back-plate.

I expect that the post you are questioning is saying the exact same thing. Mating gearbox and engine should be done carefully ensuring correct alignment of the input shaft so that the gearbox and engine slide together. No force should be required. This is where I went wrong. I suspect that you have managed to do something similar.

I hope you get it sorted out. Best of luck,

Neil

[Jason]

yamaha_fizzy wrote:

last night was the first time i have thought about selling the car. i went to my mates, and he reminded how much of a nice capri i could buy with the money.

Really? Why is your car worth a million quid then? No Crapi is worth a nice Spit, well maybe a Zakspeed one :)

Box out, straight edge on the backplate and you will soon see if it's bent. As has already been said here, the symptoms do sound like a bent cackplate and if you've had the box in and out a few times, learning as you go, it's quite easy to bend things. Take lots of phots before you tinker with things - ie, pull the box and take a photo of the flywheel and inside the bell housing. Then take photos of the clutch as you strip it. Post them on here and we should be able to see what's happening. This is all fixeable without too much expenditure and a bit of hassle.

[Fizzy]

thanks for your suggestions, i should have the box out later today and i'll get plenty of pics. while its out again, im thinking of opening the gearbox up to try and fix a peristent oil leak, and possibly replace anything that looks past its best. i had chunks of brass come out last time i changed the oil, and i think its 2nd synchromesh. but is there anything else worth changing for piece of mind while its open ?

ive never opened a gearbox up, is getting into it as simple as i like to think, with just a lid bolted on top of it after removing the remote linkage ?

Jason - i've got big love for a 2.0S capri mk3. but as much as he was trying to convince me, i was telling myself how nice it is in my spit in the summer. when i get the capri, the spit will still be the numero uno car, no worries about that. having a capri for the winter just means i can give the spit some extra lovin' as it won't be my only car anymore. which means i can finally do jobs that involve it being off the road.

[Jason]

Naa, I still don't have the love for a Capri - plenty of Triumph tin tops you could have for the winter if you invest in a vat of waxoyl :-)
The gearbox is a potential pandoras box of nasties and to be honest, having watched the professionals rebuild them, I'm none the wiser as to what actually constitutes knackered or re-useable! I just know that as a matter of course we replaced all gaskets, bearings and 3rd gear syncro in the Vitesse box when it was "refreshed" - also, I could see some damage (when pointed out) and so we built up another selector hub - I say we, it was "put that there and this here" so although I could say "I rebuilt the gearbox" I couldn't repeat it! I couldn't really see or feel any major difference between the synchro that came out and the one that went back in but the difference in gear change was huge.

[drofgum]

Fizzy,
Jason said"The gearbox is a potential pandoras box of nasties "
Hear Hear!
By taking the top cover off you will get a look at the works of the box, but that won't allow you to do much more than inspect for missing teeth and other major damage. It certainly won't help you find the wear that makes a box loud or hard to shift.
                                                                          Good luck,
                                                                          Paul

[Fizzy]

other than sometimes a bit of trouble with the synchro between 3rd and 2nd changing down, i dont really have any complaints about the box. i refurbed the remote linkage with the kit from canleys and it made a huge improvement. like i said, i know something brass in the box is missing some bits, as they're in my oil draining bucket. really making a quick visual check on things was all i was looking for, but didnt know if there were any 'prone to wear' bits that could be easily replaced as matter of course while the box is out. if it looks mostly ok, i certainly wont be digging about in it.

Jason - most tin-top triumphs dont really do it for me though. saloons are too big for what i want, and tbh from whats a left unless its a dolly sprint, i'm not particuarly interested. and im not going to get a 'good' sprint for 'good' capri money.

[Jason]

The synchro rings are brass coloured (whether it's actually brass I don't know) and they have teeth so it might be bits of that - knackered synchro would affect gear change, you can beat the synchro and grind the gears if you change up too quickly - how quickly depends on how knackered :-)

The thing about gearboxes is that you can spend more time and as much money stripping and rebuilding your own box a few times to get it right as you would just buying a recon box from a replutable seller. Buy on specification not on price, there's a huge difference between sellers. When you post your pictures, include one of the brass bits you found in the oil.