CRAJ Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Mum and Dad are visiting this weekend and as I have the CW stainless exhaust (standard pattern) for his new purchase at ours, they are in the mk1. It managed the 205 miles no problems.Last night we went out for something to eat and having had a quick look around it in the dark I drove, only a few miles away at the pub we do the local meets in.Wow how different is the steering on a mk1? Both of our cars have PAS and I really noticed the difference, not the obvious weight of it being manual steering but the extra turn involved because of the lower gearing. It feels as though you need an extra quarter turn of the wheel just to turn in to corners.Apart from that it drives pretty nicely with plenty of power, no squeaks or rattles and the indicators on the left side like a modern car. I know why the dip switch is on the floor now though, you need both hands on the wheel for direction changes!Nice drive though and you can feel the lack of over hangs in comparison to a mk2.Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I thought all PAS cars had the same ratio? I know a Stag PAS rack is more powerful than a Saloon PAS rack making it feel rather light.Are you sure the steering arms are correct on your dads MkI as MkI's never had PAS and the PAS steering arm is different to a manual steering arm. This is sometimes overlooked when cars are converted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radders Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Richard_B wrote:I thought all PAS cars had the same ratio? I know a Stag PAS rack is more powerful than a Saloon PAS rack making it feel rather light.Are you sure the steering arms are correct on your dads MkI as MkI's never had PAS and the PAS steering arm is different to a manual steering arm. This is sometimes overlooked when cars are converted.I think he means that both of his Mk2's have power steering while his dads Mk1 has manual? I may be wrong though? :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radders Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 CRAJ wrote:Mum and Dad are visiting this weekend and as I have the CW stainless exhaust (standard pattern) for his new purchase at ours, they are in the mk1. It managed the 205 miles no problems.Last night we went out for something to eat and having had a quick look around it in the dark I drove, only a few miles away at the pub we do the local meets in.Wow how different is the steering on a mk1? Both of our cars have PAS and I really noticed the difference, not the obvious weight of it being manual steering but the extra turn involved because of the lower gearing. It feels as though you need an extra quarter turn of the wheel just to turn in to corners.Apart from that it drives pretty nicely with plenty of power, no squeaks or rattles and the indicators on the left side like a modern car. I know why the dip switch is on the floor now though, you need both hands on the wheel for direction changes!Nice drive though and you can feel the lack of over hangs in comparison to a mk2.Colin.I found that as well Colin when I first bought Gertie. I'd been used to driving two Mk2's and my other Mk1 which all have power steering fitted. Needless to say, power steering was fitted soon fitted to Gertie as well. :)I believe Chris Witor does a 'quick rack' for manual steering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRAJ Posted November 18, 2011 Author Share Posted November 18, 2011 391 wrote:I think he means that both of his Mk2's have power steering while his dads Mk1 has manual? I may be wrong though? :-/You are correct Radders, Dad's has no PAS and ours do, not driven a big saloon without before.I have all the bits in the garage to change it for him if he wants, I know what I would do if it was mine ;)Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Ah, now I understand. Yes the manual rack is slower than a PAS rack. This is why the WCR cars had PAS racks but without the pump. Must have been very tiring to drive like that for 16,000 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Yep, the non PAS saloon steering requires you to recalibrate your brain and arms.I'm about to try a quick rack conversion though the steering doesn't really need to be any heavier than it already is :-/. I'm collecting bits for a PAS conversion but it's a bit of a palaver!Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sorbington Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 They should have had power steering as standard. Much, much nicer with PAS. As has been said, it's the quicker ratio as much as the assistance which makes the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Hello Nick,"I'm collecting bits for a PAS conversion but it's a bit of a palaver!"You'll be adding weight, courting more oil leaks and wasting engine power.Having driven these cars for some thirty years, and all manual steering I don't find them undergeared, possibly as I like to use 'oversteer' mode where possible)Alec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Alec,In most respects I completely agree with you. My main objection is the "slowness" so before fitting PAS I'm trying a "quick rack", which is the original rack with the 7 tooth pinion from a Spitfire in it. This will sharpen things up to an extent - just a question of how much heavier it becomes. Not so much an issue for me but I'd like my wife to be able to drive it too. Can't report on the result yet as I've stripped a thread on one of the rack mount U-bolts and the other 3 look sad too - so I'm awaiting a delivery from Mr Witor. I'll now be using solid mounts as well. If this rack proves quick enough then it opens up the possibility of an electric column and even speed sensitive PAS.... It's also worth mentioning that if this was only car I drove regularly the issue would be less as I do get used to it after a while, but it's so much slower than the other cars I drive often that the mental recalibration needed when swapping in either direction is a bit disconcerting. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piman Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Hello Nick, my other regular drives are my Scimitar, a 2000 ish Ford Mondeo, 2005 Transit and a Nissan Navaro none of which seem to be 'quicker' in the steering?Alec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I'm comparing it with an A6 (old C4 platform), Mk1 Focus and Vitesse (with Herald rack).Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRAJ Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 Nick_Jones wrote:It's also worth mentioning that if this was only car I drove regularly the issue would be less as I do get used to it after a while, but it's so much slower than the other cars I drive often that the mental recalibration needed when swapping in either direction is a bit disconcerting. NickThat is just how I felt about it Nick, strangely we fitted solid rack mounts to Dad's car at the weekend, the rubber ones were allowing the rack to twist a lot. This improved the feel tenfold, but the slowness or undergearing was still there, most noticeably because I drive both our PAS cars almost daily.Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishbull Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 CRAJ wrote:That is just how I felt about it Nick, strangely we fitted solid rack mounts to Dad's car at the weekend, the rubber ones were allowing the rack to twist a lot. This improved the feel tenfold, but the slowness or undergearing was still there, most noticeably because I drive both our PAS cars almost daily.Colin.Get to the Gym you whimp..................... or change Clubs ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJB_Harvey Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Use roller bearing top strut mounts on non PAS cars these give a nice smooth feel . My PIs running them with 205 section tyres and a quick rack and that's not heavy , in fact once moving it's lighter than it was before when it had PAS .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzer Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I'd agree the quick rack and roller bearing struts work fine. cant get my wife out of the 2000 rally car she uses it to go shopping! also have a motolita steering wheel fitted which feels perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 These are the CW roller strut-tops you are referring to? Like the idea. CW doesn't seem to be listing them just now though?Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I've been interested in those for a long time — seems like a nice way forward.I'd imagine they'd be quite easy to fabricate? Just finding the right bearing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Borris Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Wonder if they are the same as the Escort ones, they do look the same?If anyone cares to send some measurements, maybe the PCD of the bolt holes, centre bore and overall sizes, I'll pop into Rally Design (5 mins down the road) and have a look!Link to the Rally design ones http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=907_911&products_id=15569Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Borris Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I wonder too, what difference the PAS steering arms make to the speed of the steering? Are they shorter then the manual versions or longer and interchangable?Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Nick_Jones wrote:These are the CW roller strut-tops you are referring to? Like the idea. CW doesn't seem to be listing them just now though?Also fitted (after-market) to Stag's although that always seems a bit OTT to me as the Stag has PAS anyway. A lower cost alternative would be nice, I've been meaning to get a set or two. :-/Tim has a set on his MkI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 That Rally Design thing is interesting. Need to see if I can find a stray strut-top thingy for experimentation.As I understand it, PAS arms are not suitable for the non-PAS rack as the racks are mounted in a different position (and possibly have different length tie rods) so geometry will be wrong.CheersNick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I always thought they were modified Sierra ones, buty no idea why ithink that.I might be able to help you out with a dismantled strut.CheersColinp.s. photos sent and not bounced this time....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Borris Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I think MK1 Escorts had a lot of Imperial measured parts, both in inches and A/F spanner sizes? So they and the Triumph may be the same in bolt sizes etc.?Sierra all metric. But I'm sure the guys will let measure both, I've been a good customer over the years! ;DAndy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sorbington Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Non PAS Sierras still had horrible, low geared heavy steering................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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