glang Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I'm still fighting with keeping my Vit cool in Spanish traffic jams and have given up on the cheapy ebay Chinese electric fans. They just arent powerful enough with 80 - 120w so I want one with 250+ but am much too tight to pay out for a Kenlowe or similar. Obviously the space available between the engine and rad is very limited but I wondered if anyone has found a suitable secondhand powerful electric fan from another car? If so could you let me know what car its from, its size and wattage, cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esxefi Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 at idle the engine isn't really producing that much heat so even a cheapish fan if blowing at a fair speed should keep temps down,don't forget the original fan is engine driven so is running at its slowest when needed most.I would maybe look at the rad first,they are only deemed to be marginal on performance when in good condition.Renault 5 turbo has a slim fan blade but you would have to accommodate the motor somewhow.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4001....._id%253D951779092524 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu 1986 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I tried one of the cheap electric fans on mine, but it was pants. It couldn't keep the engine cool in British summertime so I don't know how it would have coped in Spain! I've got the factory metal bladed fan on the car currently. Ideally you do need to fit the proper Kenlowe fan as they're tried & tested, but as mentioned space is limited significantly between the rad & engine. But as mentioned you should look at what different radiators you could fit to the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 Thanks guys. I think the rad is ok as when moving there's no temperature problem it just when stopping so my thinking is that a right good blast of air would control it at least for a while. I reckon a modern fan from maybe a Mondeo or Laguna might do depending on its thickness and I reckon anything will be more powerful than the chinese junk....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxbodger Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Before you splash out on a kenlowe, do a cheap experiment, and revert to the standard crank driven mechanical fan and see if it solves the problem. Mine had a kenlowe, it was never happy in heavy summer traffic - constant fuel vaporisation and lumpy running, plus the racket the fan made whenever it was on. I reverted to the factory fan and it was such an improvement I can't figure out why the previous owner fitted the kenlowe . the kenlowe blocks such a lot of the rad matrix (see pic) and doesn't shift anywhere near as much air as the factory fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 Quoted from bxbodger Before you splash out on a kenlowe, do a cheap experiment, and revert to the standard crank driven mechanical fan and see if it solves the problem. Mine had a kenlowe, it was never happy in heavy summer traffic - constant fuel vaporisation and lumpy running, plus the racket the fan made whenever it was on. I reverted to the factory fan and it was such an improvement I can't figure out why the previous owner fitted the kenlowe . the kenlowe blocks such a lot of the rad matrix (see pic) and doesn't shift anywhere near as much air as the factory fan Hi, I did have the original mechanical fan and found that in hot weather it couldnt keep the rad cool at tickover so went the electrical route. As I say electrical fans seem to vary enormously including the lower power and old model kenlowes (like the one in your pic) as compared to a top end 190quid models. I suppose its the efficiency of the blade design and motor kw rating you're paying for but do think that whatever you fit it doesnt block much airflow when driving along cos I never suffer then with high temps. You only have to look at a modern car to see how they do it nowadays......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Encom Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I fitted one to my Vitesse, and what a pain in the back side. My mechanical fan blades were knackered, so thought it would be a good 'upgrade', but should have stuck with a mechanical one, but used a more efficient blade ie: plastic one if they can be made to fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nang Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 You could fit a pusher fan in front of the radiator and keep your existing fan also. AUS and NZ S's had this set up with a thermo switch. My S electric fan never comes on even in NZ summer temps.I'd suspect your radiator, thermostat or water passages in block partially blocked.Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxbodger Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 No room in front on a Vitesse.....there's barely space behind the rad as well. My fans a plastic one - yellow, 7 blades with rounded tips, came off a TR6, it we me to shift loads more air than the kenlowe did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I have an inexpensive, Italian made electric fan that came from my local radiator specialist. Was about £ 40 but probably 10 years ago now. Works fine and has lasted well (somewhat surprisingly). Has been very well tested and even survived Nice on the 2013 10CR - the crew were melting, but the car was fine.Rad has a high density core but has seen better days. I swapped it because cooling was marginal at high speed on hot days - it helped but not a complete cure. Would like to substitue something more modern but the size and shape of the available space makes it a major challenge. Pusher fan? No chance whatever!Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 Is that a SPAL fan Nick? If you have the budget theres now some very powerful and slim electric fans out there as magnets and blade design have improved a lot recently. I do believe that fitting one these would be sufficient to keep a Vitesse cool under almost all conditions however they draw upto 24amps! Im looking for a cheaper alternative but as Tony says above maybe I need to look again at the rest of the cooling system as mine sometimes boils over just after Ive turned the engine off...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 It has no make markings. Bought it because it was there, the right size, hanging on their wall and seemed like decent value.Looking through the Spal catalogue it does look rather like them. I'll look and see if there is a model number or current draw marked on it. Don't think it pulls anything like 24A.Boiling over just after switch off might just be a weak pressure cap?Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 yes Ive got a 13lb cap to go on just to make sure but even so the temperature gauge goes pretty high....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I have a mechanical "filled system" gauge on mine. Calibrated to 120ºC. Pre-electric fan I've seen it go to 110ºC without boiling over (following a caravan up an Alp). It rarely goes over 100ºC now.Does yours not have the overflow catch tank? Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 yes it dumps into the bottle but of course produces a load of steam. I do have a tendency to overfill the rad which proabably doesnt help cos the air space would help absorb the small change in volume of the coolant due to the higher temperature reached.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny-Jimbo Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Quoted from bxbodger To be truely effective all fans really need a close fitting shroud - I know that the standard ones don't have them, but it does help a huge amount, and putting one on front is a big bonus too - however, I am well aware there is no room on a Vitesse for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 Your right Jonny Jimbo, many modern cars even seem have a shroud over the whole rad leaving just the space for the fan. I dont know if Im going to go that far but am now searching for a secondhand item with a shroud that I can modify to fit the Vitesse. Trouble is Im then probably gonna need to upgrade to an alternator........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Flexney Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I would suggest taking a good look at the radiator if your standard fan is not managing to keep the engine cool.I don't understand why the standard fans were okay back in 1960s but are no good now, unless of course you have increased the power of your engine.Not sure if this would fit the Vitesse but the TR3 guys used to swap the original metal fan for a plastic fan from a BMW 2002. It was a straight swap apart from having to enlarge the holes for the bolts slightly. The modern design meant that more air was being moved but of course at the cost of horse power. AndyF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Just to chip in two cents worth of experience ... I had a '69 Mk2 3.8 Jag which are notorious for boiling over when becalmed in traffic. They were built to fly not stand around posing, but nowadays it does tend to do more of the latter. The overheating problem was cured on this one though. The original 8 blade engine driven fan was left in place, but a ten blade electric pusher fan from an old Peugeot was fitted on the front of the radiator. This was simply activated by a +ve fed switch on the dash, so that it could be switched on or off whenever the driver chose. It was noisy enough to remind you it was still running when switched off and left the car, but feeding it from an Ign+ point could be a better solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 yeh I think the Vitesse cooling was at the limit even when new (well they had squeezed a 2L six in what was originally for a 1200 4 pot) and then with a bit of age and worse traffic conditions plus the spanish sunshine here its all too much........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Moore Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 My 13/60‘s cooling system has evolved as it's moved to a warmer climate, and tuned to produce slightly more power. I removed the metal engine-driven fan to reduce noise, although a plastic one might have done just as well. It now has a high-density core, and two 12 inch sucker fans mounted on a shroud. The shroud became necessary when I moved to Australia and it had to cope with temperatures in the high thirties. As Jonny says, they make a big difference, as a fan without the shroud will only suck air through the portion of the radiator it covers. A good check of your cooling system's basic effectiveness is whether it will stay cool without a fan while moving. Mine usually does, but the fans come on when the airflow is blocked by a vehicle in front.As for the current draw of a fan, is it naive to assume that more current draw equals more air moved? In which case, the highest current drawing fan will move the most air? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I haven't actually bought a Herald yet, but I've got this earmarked for when I do ... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3104.....e=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AITAt this size and price, if necessary, I could even fit two.Johnny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted December 18, 2015 Author Share Posted December 18, 2015 I think that fan has the standard 80w motor so wont be very powerful when compared to some others however with a Herald it'll probably be enough. You could go up in size (although generally the motor power stays the same) cos the cost isnt much higher and with the thermostatic control you'll never over cool the engine. Ive managed to squeeze the 16" version, which does come with a bigger 120w motor, in my Vitesse but still need more........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny-Jimbo Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Surely motor power is not the important factor? It must be the design of the blades, the angle of them and the number that dictates how much air is moved. An 80W motor with a 12" fan, 9 blades, curved etc will move more air than a 12" fan on a 120W motor with one flat blade... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlubikey Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Well, provided the blades are doing a reasonably efficient job of work, the motor power is a good indication of how much air they're moving. Looking for a fan which has an effective aerofoil section (i.e. does *not* have symmetrical blades like the "reverse the contacts to make it push" Kenlowe type) and a decent cowl (especially if it's a pusher) should guarantee this. Your fictitious one-bladed fan (OK, let's say it's 2-bladed so it doesn't shake itself to bits!) either won't actually draw 120W, even though that's the motor rating, or it will spin bloody fast and move the air. That would make one heck of a racket (which would sap some power and lower efficiency) so it's unlikely a production car would have such a thing. I am of course ignoring the possibility that the blade tips are supersonic - that would be even louder!Just for the record, I used a single XJ6/XJ40 "auxiliary" radiator pusher fan (Fleabay one in Oz) on my blue 2.5 Spit (no mechanical fan) and found it was *just* enough in hot weather. When the same setup was put in my red Spit I used two of these fans and they easily keep the temperature under control on the hottest days. The main reason for dual fans was redundancy so the engine wouldn't cook if one fan failed (separate relays & fuses).The one thing I'd like to change is to add an under-bonnet temperature sensor so the fans come on at a slow speed when things get a bit warm - in slow/stationary traffic, or when I slow down after enthusiastic application of the throttle pedal! Keeping the engine fan would do much the same.Cheers,Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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