Brake Pads

[marktheherald]

I am looking to improve the performance of my type 14 calipers. For the last 3yrs my front brake effort at MOT time has been low.(too low, but I have got an understanding tester!)  Facts:- The car is a J.C.Midge with 15" wheels. The pads have been in place for about 4 or 5yrs. The calipers were replaced with recon items at the same time. There is no difference in effort between left and right. Could the pads be 'glazed'? If not, is there a better pad? Any suggestions gratefully recieved as MOT time is looming, and my usual tester might not be so lenient this time.  

[GT6boy]

After ditching Silicon fluid, the recent fitting of Mintex pads (1144?) over the Greenstuff items has brought about a massive improvement in braking on the GT6 calipers.

[Pete Lewis]

do a search for mintex 1144 and you get all the various forums pro/cons
aarh  green stuff pads  easy to clean off the wheels but the skid marks in the undergarments no so easily
think its got to be mintex  wins ,   predicable reliable , even if you drive them hard    Pete

[GT6boy]

I first fitted Greenstuff greens about 10 years ago nd they were much better than the cheapo-spanish tat I was running. The dust was easy to clean off too.
However, I fitted some more greens about 6 years ago and these were a different kettle of fish. Yes, they worked pretty well at stopping the car, but the dust they gave off was immense and seemed quite aggresive toward the alloywheels( :(). I've been told that Greenstuff changed the pad formulation, hence the latter pads generting more dust :-/.
Its Mintex for me now.

[Doug Paterson]

Mintex M1144 all the way.  Compared to "Standard" material the stopping power is fantastic.  Don't be tempted by the M1155, M1166 which are only suited to racing.  1144 works well from cold on road.

[marktheherald]

Pretty unanimous, I'll be after some Mintex M1144 then!  Thanks for your valuable input, I'll keep you posted on results.  Mark.

[JohnD]

Doug's opinion on Mintex 1155, "only for racing", may not be entirely true.
In fact I use them to race with and they do the job very well. I used to suffer from brake fade about ten minutes into a race, and that just doesn't happen any more.  But at the same time, my car is road legal and I so use it.  As long as you don't expect a four wheel lock-up right off from the kerb, 1155 is fine.

1166s are a different thing altogther. You need really hot brakes to get them working.

And "glazing".   See this link to read motorsport legend Carroll Smith on that and several other brake myths: http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml
May I recommend in particular his words on 'breaking-in', or as we would say, 'bedding-in' new brake pads?    This is especially important if you choose higher temperature brake materials.

And mark. If you haven't done any advanced maintnenance on your brakes, apart from maybe fluid, pad or shoe changes, now is the time!   Brakes so inferior for three years that they might not pass the Mot?  You're living on borrowed time.   Well maintained Triumph brakes should be able to lock-up the front tyres from almost any speed.  They're that good.

John

[marktheherald]

I only cover about 1000 miles a year and find my brake performance more than adequate on the road. However I'm wondering if the rolling inertia in the 15" wheels is affecting the performance of the calipers that were an original fitment for 13" rims? At MOT time it is usually tested with a 'pot' (one of those gizmos placed on the floor and then tested on the road)  This usually gives an acceptable reading, the rollers however show a reduced effort.( It has been tested on both).  But point taken about brake maintenance, a full strip down is on the agenda (and some Mintex1144 pads!).......  Just as an afterthought, I never used to have probs with the brakes until I changed the calipers and pads. I wish I could remember where the pads came from.

[marktheherald]

photos of pads

[thescrapman]

marktheherald wrote:

I only cover about 1000 miles a year and find my brake performance more than adequate on the road. However I'm wondering if the rolling inertia in the 15" wheels is affecting the performance of the calipers that were an original fitment for 13" rims? At MOT time it is usually tested with a 'pot' (one of those gizmos placed on the floor and then tested on the road)  This usually gives an acceptable reading, the rollers however show a reduced effort.( It has been tested on both).  But point taken about brake maintenance, a full strip down is on the agenda (and some Mintex1144 pads!).......  Just as an afterthought, I never used to have probs with the brakes until I changed the calipers and pads. I wish I could remember where the pads came from.

Had a thought.

My Moss can't pass an MOT on brake roller performance either, but they are more than adequate.

The rollers require a certain amount of weight to work properly. I don't have enough.

At the next MOT put as much weight into the car as you can. Bags of sand, spuds, etc. Big heavy toollkit anything and everything.

Also, the MOT man needs to know the kerbweight of the car to apply the compensation factor to the readings to get the true figure that should be reported back.

With a figure of 600kg for the Moss it passes with flying colours.

Cheers

Colin

[marktheherald]

V.interesting! A trip to the weighbridge beckons....Mark.

[Doug Paterson]

JohnD wrote:

Doug's opinion on Mintex 1155, "only for racing", may not be entirely true.
In fact I use them to race with and they do the job very well. I used to suffer from brake fade about ten minutes into a race, and that just doesn't happen any more.  But at the same time, my car is road legal and I so use it.  As long as you don't expect a four wheel lock-up right off from the kerb, 1155 is fine.

Fair point John.  My view on the 1155s came mainly from other web users and also from a quick chat with a Mintex chap who I queried about the sticker which comes on the Mintex Racing box "This material not to be used on the Public Highway".  He explained that for cars built after 1999 the material was not approved due to some regulation I've forgotten all about, but perfectly legal for older cars like ours.  He recommended the 1144 over 1155 for fast road use.  

Lost the guys email address but very helpful - which is always a good sign in any company.

[marktheherald]

Midge weighs in at 800kgs. I'm now looking for the cheapest Mintex1144's. (Bl##dy expensive when you've been used to sets at £9.99 or less!) MOT is about 2 weeks away.

[CharlieB]

Try Rally Design, I think these are the ones:
http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=9782

[marktheherald]

Had quite a build-up of crud on the outer face of both discs. I cleaned all this off with a rotary 3M pad (non-damaging to metal) and then went out and re-bedded the pads. Much better! Also stripped down the rear drums and found a seized adjuster on one side, but no other issues. Adjusted the handbrake again, better as well.  Took the Midge in for an early MOT this morning and once they had 'dialled-in' the 800kgs on the system it passed with no problems!  Result! .... However I am still going to change to 1144 pads as soon as finances allow (other halfs hossbox has just failed MOT..Aaargh)  

[GreenV8Machine]

I do believe the mintex M1144s faded for Nick Jones vitesse in wales, I was on the same roads with M1155s, no fade.

Ive have mine in for a long time now, never had any fade.

[Nick Jones]

GT6_User_and_Abuser wrote:

I do believe the mintex M1144s faded for Nick Jones vitesse in wales, I was on the same roads with M1155s, no fade.

This is true  :(  They were getting some fairly extreme treatment though, my codriver (driving at the time) was under the impression that if we weren't in Newport by 8am, bad things would happen......  It wasn't until we arrived that he informed me that reason he hadn't been slowing down for corners was that he couldn't.... :o.  That car needs bigger brakes.

Nick

[Jonny-Jimbo]

New Old Stock Asbestos lung killers all the way...

[GreenV8Machine]

Nick_Jones wrote:

This is true  :(  They were getting some fairly extreme treatment though, my codriver (driving at the time) was under the impression that if we weren't in Newport by 8am, bad things would happen......  It wasn't until we arrived that he informed me that reason he hadn't been slowing down for corners was that he couldn't.... :o.  That car needs bigger brakes.

Nick

LOL

yes, we thought that too, I dont hang about and coming into wales through small villages I was just thundering through them, was giving the car a bloody good hammering including the brakes.
My nav screwed up in a town, and willcloumbine got a bloody good lead on me, not for long though hehe  8)

I dont think bigger brakes are needed, Im on the mintex and drilled disks. Ill tell you how they fair at caddy this friday.

[shedmonkey]

Jonny_Jimbo wrote:

New Old Stock Asbestos lung killers all the way...

With you on that one-I am sure in my head that the fancy pads I had in the GT6 didnt do the new discs any good it all seemed too hot and I was forever  loosing grease from the one  bearing, swapped back onto lung bleeders,I feel didnt reap any benifit on the road over standard lung killers,but that could just be down to my driving and not being "hard" enough on the brakes
Ive got some great fully loaded lung melters (ferodo) in the MK1 at the mo did the RBR great not one hint of fade and the same on the HCR

[James]

Can't get my NOS Ferrodo pads on the Mk1 to fade...

[Jonny-Jimbo]

On my Vitesse I have lung killers from a Capri I think, with the lead for the warning light on the back. Tempted to wire it up, but as the pads still have a huge amount of material left I don't need them doing yet...