Milky oil

[Greenie]

I’ve noticed a small pool of oil under the car over the past few days so decided to check the oil level before investigating the leak further. When I pulled the dipstick out the oil on it had a very milky appearance and was way above the mark on the dipstick. I thought the oil might be contaminated with water but as far as I can tell, the water level hasn’t really changed

Not sure if this connected but I’m guessing it probably is… I’ve run the engine for fairly short periods since putting it in the Hurricane and because I hadn’t finished the interior there were no gauges fitted. I’ve now fitted the temperature gauge and notice that it’s overheating which looks like it’s down to a faulty thermostat.

Any ideas what’s happened?

[nang]

Sorry, but sounds like you may need a new head gasket. Do you have access to a compression tester ? May be worth checking.
Cheers Tony.

[CHRIS211083]

+1 head gasket.

[Spider]

+2 head gasket.  :-/

[thebrookster]

Yup, fraid I have to add another vote to the harbinger of doom, making

+3 headgasket.

Get that oil out of the engine, and drain the coolant to prevent further leakage. And for Christ's sake, don't run the engine!! Oil is kinda vital, and if you are lucky you should be able to get away with a gasket change. If you run the engine you may well be looking at a full bottom end rebuild as well!!

[Greenie]

Thanks guys, looks like a consensus on that one then  ;D  I'm guessing this might be something to do with the overheating issue (it was the thermostat by the way), is there a chance of any damage being caused to the head do you think? If so, will it be obvious?

[Greenie]

thebrookster wrote:

Yup, fraid I have to add another vote to the harbinger of doom, making

+3 headgasket.

Get that oil out of the engine, and drain the coolant to prevent further leakage. And for Christ's sake, don't run the engine!! Oil is kinda vital, and if you are lucky you should be able to get away with a gasket change. If you run the engine you may well be looking at a full bottom end rebuild as well!!

Blimey, that would be all I need - my own stupid fault for running it a bit without the luxury of a temperature gauge but kind of assumed the new thermostat would be a good one and all would be ok for a short burst or two  :(

[Richard B]

+4 headgasket.

Hopefully head should be ok. Cast Iron heads are pretty strong. Check the face & block face for corrosion. If it goes again they may need a "minimum to clean" skim.

Worth risking a headgasket first  before too much expense.

The head can crack but usually only if there is severe over heating

[Alex]

I wouldnt be panicking,drop the oil out and drain the water then change the head gasket for a quality item (payen).
These engine are pretty robust and the likely hood of you having done serious damage just running it up with no load are pretty slim.
However now you know dont run it at all! ;)

Good luck!
Alex

[thebrookster]

1936 wrote:

Thanks guys, looks like a consensus on that one then  ;D  I'm guessing this might be something to do with the overheating issue (it was the thermostat by the way), is there a chance of any damage being caused to the head do you think? If so, will it be obvious?

Whilst it is perfectly possible that the overheating issue has caused the headgasket to blow, it is also worth remembering that it can just as easily be the other way round!!

You want to get the head off, and replace the gasket. If you have a straight edge it is relatively easy to check for warping. Assuming this is ok, stick it back together and see if it will run!! Other than checking the thermostat in a kettle, there is little else you can do to check the cooling system, so you might as well ignore it.

Problem is, you have two big issues here, both can equally affect each other. You need to fix one before you can look at the other.

[CHRIS211083]

Buggar it, just skim it anyway. It's £36 for a light skim. That way you wont waist £15 on the head gasket. Its an easy job to do and turn around can be next day. DO IT ONCE AND DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME.

Chris.

[RedRooster]

Drill a 3mm hole in the thermosat anyway as insurance.
RR

[thebrookster]

2402 wrote:

Buggar it, just skim it anyway. It's £36 for a light skim. That way you wont waist £15 on the head gasket. Its an easy job to do and turn around can be next day. DO IT ONCE AND DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME.

Chris.

I quite agree, the skim is a good idea.

However, I am not certain where you are based greenie, but £36 might be bit hopeful if you live in England, particularly the south. For some reason your engine shop prices tend to be a bit higher??

[RedRooster]

thebrookster wrote:

I quite agree, the skim is a good idea.

However, I am not certain where you are based greenie, but �36 might be bit hopeful if you live in England, particularly the south. For some reason your engine shop prices tend to be a bit higher??

Fer fecks sake don't get it done in France, 110 Euros!!! for the last four pot i had done & it was only a 3 thou skim.
RR

[Greenie]

Thanks for all the replies. I've just drained everything and taken the head off, and to be honest I don't really know what a blown head gasket looks like, but I can't see any damage and it looks much the same as it did when I put it in. Head and block look ok too so might be lucky on that front.

I had the head skimmed a couple of months ago (it was about 38 quid I think from memory) so will check with a steel rule to be on the safe side

I'll give a new Payen gasket a go and see what happens, maybe I didn't torque it down quite properly last time  :-/ but when I loosened off the nuts bit by bit they all felt about the same - hopefully nothing more sinister lurks  :(

[TimW]

could it be fuel in the oil?  I don't know if that would turn it milky or not and only mention it because you said the coolant level hadn't changed.

[Richard B]

1936 wrote:

maybe I didn't torque it down quite properly last time  :-/ but when I loosened off the nuts bit by bit they all felt about the same

What engine, what torque?

[junkuser]

Sounds like cracks in head or block should be checked for at this stage if a skimmed head and new gasket have already been fitted correctly.
Good chance the oil emulsion would not have done damage though.

[thebrookster]

339 wrote:

could it be fuel in the oil?  I don't know if that would turn it milky or not and only mention it because you said the coolant level hadn't changed.

I don't know if fuel would make the oil milky, gut reaction says no but that is not based on anything scientific :)

Easy way to check though, sniff the oil. Given the level of emulsification in the oil, you'll be able to smell the petrol if there is any!!

[ferny]

1936 wrote:

Thanks for all the replies. I've just drained everything and taken the head off, and to be honest I don't really know what a blown head gasket looks like, but I can't see any damage and it looks much the same as it did when I put it in. Head and block look ok too so might be lucky on that front.

I had the head skimmed a couple of months ago (it was about 38 quid I think from memory) so will check with a steel rule to be on the safe side

I'll give a new Payen gasket a go and see what happens, maybe I didn't torque it down quite properly last time  :-/ but when I loosened off the nuts bit by bit they all felt about the same - hopefully nothing more sinister lurks  :(

Post photos of the block and head mating surfaces for us to see. As has already been said, check it's all true and perfectly flat. Also, look at the water in your engine, does it contain oil? Perhaps a silly question, but when you did the head before did you make sure no water went into the oil? It can happen, but there's a lot of water in that oil by the looks of it!

[Greenie]

I don't think the oil smelt of petrol - there was a general smell of petrol around anyway because a float in one of the carbs was sticking and fuel was leaking out - but that's another story!

Richard, the engine is a Spitfire 1300 FD, torque was whatever professor Haynes said in the good book.

I did wonder if there might be cracks lurking somewhere out of sight, but Ferny raises a really good point. The engine came with another car I bought a while ago and when I fitted it into the Hurricane and added oil and water, the water was pouring out from between head and block. Turned out the previous owner had used a head gasket for a 1500 i.e. for recessed bores! So, yes, water could have, in fact quite likely did, get in to the oil then. Certainly would account for the coolant not dropping now.

I'll keep my fingers crossed that nothing is cracked and will check/refit head with new gasket, fit new oil filter and thermostat (will test the bugger first this time) and put everything else back together.

I guess it could do with flushing, I've got several gallons of modern multigrade which I'll never use, is it ok to use this to flush it?

Thanks again for all the help

Cheers

Simon

[rotoflex]

That looks different from the mixture I got when my head gasket went.  I saw a yellow-ish brown sort of frothy mixture.
Mine looked more like a Coke float (When you put a couple of scoops of vanilla ice cream in a tall glass & fill the glass up with Coca- Cola).

[Greenie]

rotoflex wrote:

That looks different from the mixture I got when my head gasket went.  I saw a yellow-ish brown sort of frothy mixture.
Mine looked more like a Coke float (When you put a couple of scoops of vanilla ice cream in a tall glass & fill the glass up with Coca- Cola).

I can't visualise how that would look Bill, I'd better go make one for breakfast  ;D

[Richard B]

1936 wrote:

Richard, the engine is a Spitfire 1300 FD, torque was whatever professor Haynes said in the good book.

and added oil and water, the water was pouring out from between head and block. Turned out the previous owner had used a head gasket for a 1500 i.e. for recessed bores! So, yes, water could have, in fact quite likely did, get in to the oil then. Certainly would account for the coolant not dropping now.

In which case just give it an oil change first and don't bother with the head gasket.

Worth checking what torque you used, as the Haynes book of lies has been known to mislead people.

Canley Classics do a Heavy Duty cylinder head nut which is stronger than off the shelf nuts (only catch is it's 14mm AF, not 9/16"AF). If you have the OE nuts you will be fine but normal 8.8 nuts will strip when torqued correctly for the head.

[Sheepy]

As Richard said, I would just try flushing the oil, and trying that.

Do a compression test!
Pull the plugs and check the colour! (note which plug is from which cylinder)

Then if they show any abnomolies, then the next step is gasket!

But I agree, usually when water/anti freeze mixes with oil, it's goes more of a crape am/yellow mixture, not the grey you have? It's due to the antifreeze!
So ferny may be correct! Clever little boy! Gold star and cookie for you!  ;D