Bainzy Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 The fitting kits Moss and Rimmers sell for these seem a bit pricey for what you get, surely they can be done for less than £100, and without having to use a push-on fitting thermostat. Can you guys advise how I'd go about doing it?I've already located the 13 row oil coolers they sell, £20 cheaper on ebay. I like the idea of using a sandwich plate with an integral thermostat, which means no oil flows outside the engine until it's actually required.Mocal sandwich plate, 1/2 BSP £48 (link)TT9401 3/4" Adaptor Bolt £8 (link)Mounting brackets/bolts £4.60 (link)...all that leaves is the hoses and fittings, which surely could be purchased for less than £38. Braided 1/2" is £7 per half-metre from Merlin, and fir-tree fit £5 per metre, but how do you go about swaging braided lines?
Jonny-Jimbo Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 I've always found Rally Design to be cheap and helpful on the phone too.
piman Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 Hello Bainzy, the most cost effective thing you can do is to fit an oil temperature gauge, and I suspect, as I found out, that an oil cooler is not necessary.Alec
molten Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 1381 wrote:I've already located the 13 row oil coolers they sell, �20 cheaper on ebay. I like the idea of using a sandwich plate with an integral thermostat, which means no oil flows outside the engine until it's actually required. Is 13 row cooler considered to be the minimum or maximum?Can coolers from other vehicles be used/fit?Cheers
CRAJ Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 piman wrote:Hello Bainzy, the most cost effective thing you can do is to fit an oil temperature gauge, and I suspect, as I found out, that an oil cooler is not necessary.AlecI had a turbocharged Lancia years ago, the only car I have ever owned with an oil temp. gauge. As Alec says, the oil temp. never got high at all, with only a marginal increase when towing a caravan up long inclines on motorways. So the justification for an oil cooler would only be for towing or spirited track days, otherwise it's wasted money.It was noticeable how the oil takes a lot longer to reach normal operating temp. than the coolant! So the engine really wants to have been running at normal via the water temp. gauge for a while, before you start 'hammering' it.Colin.
JohnD Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 CRAJ wrote: So the justification for an oil cooler would only be for towing or spirited track days, otherwise it's wasted money.It was noticeable how the oil takes a lot longer to reach normal operating temp. than the coolant! So the engine really wants to have been running at normal via the water temp. gauge for a while, before you start 'hammering' it.Colin.I fully agree with Colin!Moreover, if you must have a cooler for road use, you must have a thermostat in the oil system, to short-circuit the cooler until the oil is hot. Otherwise, your engine oil will be operating for most of the time at temps that are too low for adequate lubrication.In fact. with a cooler and thermostat, you will find that the cooler IS short-circuited, most of the time! It's that unnecessary for road use!John
Bainzy Posted February 24, 2011 Author Posted February 24, 2011 errr right okay thanks guys. I'm already aware that a lot of you find them unnecessary, however I like to do higher than average revs in my 1500 and when it leaves the house, it's out for the majority of the day. Very rarely do less than 25 miles on a run, and I plan on using it for long distance runs too. So going back to the question... ...swaged braided fittings?
Tim Bancroft Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 Surely if running a 1500 lump, an oil cooler makes sense?
CharlieB Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 1381 wrote:So going back to the question... ...swaged braided fittings?Your nearest industrial/automotive hose supplier will make them up for you, I used "Spectrum Hose" in High Wycombe.
Nick Jones Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 Having killed a few in the past I'd tend to the opinion that the 1500 is one Triumph engine that does benefit from an oil cooler. A oil-stat is essential though.Nick
akuma.no.spitfire Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 Try here:http://www.thinkauto.com/acatalog/On_line_shop_with_standard_black_hose_27.html58.65UKP ex VAT for the complete set with normal hoses, orhttp://www.thinkauto.com/acatalog/On_line_shop_with_stainless_steel_braided_hose_28.html73.63UKP ex VAT for the complete set with stainless braided hosesHere's a pic of both of them:http://www.thinkauto.com/acatalog/On_line_shop_Oil_Cooler_Installation_Kits_26.htmlOnly other thing you need is an oil cooler.http://www.thinkauto.com/acatalog/On_line_shop_230mm_width_3.html59.88UKP ex VAT for the 10row and 70.88UKP ex VAT for the 13row cooler.Cheers,A.
andy thompson Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 Recently fitted a 23 row cooler to white PI as it had serious oil pressure problems when hot at the track (moral - never fit an oil pressure gauge) . I think it has survived the last 7 years abuse due to synthetic oil but once I knew the pressure I had to do something. Also fitted a temp gauge in the sump. Currently don't have a thermostat but it definitely needs one when not on the track (its in the mail). At the track I have 100-110 deg C within two laps - on the road it struggles to get past 75-85deg and then only in slow moving traffic - on the open road its about 65-75deg :-/
drofgum Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 Hi all, I wonder if it wouldn't be worth trying to adapt the cooler that Volvo used on some 740 Turbo models. This was a water to oil intercooler about the size of the sandwich plate used to adapt a normal oil cooler. It worked by running the oil flow to the filter through the cooler, which was coooled by circulation from the cooling system. This worked both to warm the oil quicker, and to cool the oil if it got too hot. Other than the sometimes marginal capacity of the cooling system this seems an ideal way to stabilise oil temperature. Cheers, Paul
cammmy Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 lagerzok wrote: At the track I have 100-110 deg C within two laps - Wow, I would think even that's a bit hot. Have read from a respectable source that about 85-95 is good for oil and that it begins to breakdown at about 110.In saying that though if you been running that for about 7 years with no issues then it's not a problem.
andy thompson Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 I'm happy with anything less than 130 deg on the track. Before the cooler - at the track - the oil pressure sagged to less than 10psi at idle and didn't really come back when revving UNTIL the engine had been left to cool for 30minsI think it needs to be over 100 on a regular basis to get rid of any combustion moisture. Synthetic is good for much greater temperatures - I think the ONLY ??) reason my car still has a bottom end!!!!
JohnD Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 lagerzok wrote:At the track I have 100-110 deg C within two laps - on the road it struggles to get past 75-85deg and then only in slow moving traffic - on the open road its about 65-75deg :-/There you go! Andy has done the work and has the data. Oil should be around 100C to work properly, and it's far too cool on the road with acoller and no thermostat.drofgum,I used a Mocal oil-to-water oil cooler on Silverback. See pic. The idea of that, and the raer radiator was to limit the air going intio the under-bonnet and under the car as much as possible. That worked, and the cooler worked, except on track, when the rear radiator couldn't cool the engine enough.
Bainzy Posted February 25, 2011 Author Posted February 25, 2011 JohnD wrote:There you go! Andy has done the work and has the data. Oil should be around 100C to work properly, and it's far too cool on the road with acoller and no thermostat.John, I'm not quite sure who you're adressing here? I've never seen anyone on a Triumph forum, website or book ever suggest running one without a thermostat. My original post talks about "using a sandwich plate with an integral thermostat" as opposed to an external one.Also, you stated earlier "with a cooler and thermostat, you will find that the cooler IS short-circuited, most of the time" - well then logically that means the rest of that time, it would be necessary to have a thermostatic oil cooler. I agree with you and so will be fitting one shortly. 8)
JohnD Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 Cool it, Bainzy!I think you misinterpret what I said as a perosonal attack!Andy doesn't have one; "Currently don't have a thermostat but it definitely needs one when not on the track (its in the mail)" though he sees the need for oneAnd Craj commented how long it takes for the oil to reach working temp, which prompted me to remind everyone that you need a 'stat, if you must have one. But that you don't need a cooler, for most road use.None of the above is directed at you personally, just me, passing on hard won experience!But other hard won experience is that the younger generation will never listen to their parents' advice!Big BIG smiley!John
Nick Jones Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 The liquid/liquid heat exchangers that fit between block and filter canister are used on lots of moderns and semi moderns.VAG group cars such as GTI 2, 3 & 4 have a nice compact one and so do alot of the 1.9 diesels. Biggest problem is that on a Triumph the water is on the other side of the engine so quite difficult to do a neat plumbing job. Also dumps more heat into the water so could cause general overheat problems if your cooling system is marginal.I have a theory that running the tightest possible gear end clearance on the oil pump goes a long way to maintaining hot oil pressure as the aluminium body grows rather more that the steel gears when hot leading to lots of slip......Nick
Bainzy Posted February 25, 2011 Author Posted February 25, 2011 Haha dont worry John, i didn't see it as a personal attack at all! I just wasn't sure you'd grasped the point of the thread, didn't realise you were talking to Andy and assumed you were a bit confused. lol. Perhaps my post didn't come out as light hearted as I intended? I just find it funny how any thread about oil coolers drift into discussions about whether they're useful or not, regardless of what the original post actually says! After searching previous threads and seeing it there, I actually thought about not mentioning the cooler in my post, leaving only the swaging bit, as the discussion has been done to death many times. ;D
99176 Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 A bit pricey but Merlin made me a nice pair of braided hoses for my cooler.Of course that's only two pipes because I dont run a thermostat :)
willows40 Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 all mgb`s run oil coolers as standard and don`t run thermostats
GT6 M Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 Some folk say you no need them for road use, some say you doo.I have one on, a 19 row one, and it was put on because the oil temp went of the scale if any sort of spirited blast was done, even for short periods, On a GT /Spitty, the sump is tucked well away out of the air flow, and also there are three hot ex pipes next to it too. and these give of alot of heat, as witnessed by the scorched chassis . :-/But normal driving, even at motorway speeds , the oil stays at ok temp,
cammmy Posted February 26, 2011 Posted February 26, 2011 The liquid to liquid ones on modern cars are more oil temperature 'stabilisers' than coolers I believe. They will warm the oil when it is colder than the coolant and cool it when warmer.A cooler can only cool. It cannot help keep the temperature up when it is too low.
.thumb.jpeg.b15b81ef10abeea1c3039ae03c4a9f3a.jpeg)
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.