garyf Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Hi All I'm after a bit of advice, as anyone recently rebuilt a MK2 2000/Vitesse Engine I've got the chance to purchase a nice Vitesse Mk2 but the engine I believe needs rebuilding with low oil pressure and thrust washer issues I have rebuilt one in the past but it was 20 years ago, I don't think a rebore or new pistons will be needed but I'm assuming everything else will need replacing or reconditioning I know its a bit of a vague query until the engine is stripped for inspection, but approximate minimum/maximum cost for the parts and machining would be appreciated Thanks Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Why not try it first? Not a major job to install, certainly less than an engine strip, and then you drive it to see what its like. Theres a few easy things you could check before that like compression, crank float and even inspect crank bearings but if all looks good I would whack in new crank oil seals and drive off into the sunset👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Even DiY, if you need to do a lot, it can be £1K or more, but it IS premature before you dismantle it. Best case, just bearing caps etc. The worst case would be such thrust washer wear to destroy the crank of main bearing. But very oversized thrust washers were available from America. Can't recall where, but ask on "The Triumph Experience" . Good luck! John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyf Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 (edited) On 16/01/2024 at 12:36, glang said: Why not try it first? Not a major job to install, certainly less than an engine strip, and then you drive it to see what its like. Theres a few easy things you could check before that like compression, crank float and even inspect crank bearings but if all looks good I would whack in new crank oil seals and drive off into the sunset👍 The engine definitely has issues, the oil warning light was on whilst it was ticking over and there was around 1/8" to 3/16" movement on the front pulley when I depressed the clutch, with a strange rattle from the front as if something was catching, the timing chain on the tensioner or cover maybe? The engine was very quiet otherwise though no knocking or rattles at tick over or even when revving it which I found strange. Gary Edited January 24 by garyf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyf Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 1 hour ago, JohnD said: Even DiY, if you need to do a lot, it can be £1K or more, but it IS premature before you dismantle it. Best case, just bearing caps etc. The worst case would be such thrust washer wear to destroy the crank of main bearing. But very oversized thrust washers were available from America. Can't recall where, but ask on "The Triumph Experience" . Good luck! John I've read if the thrusts are very badly worn or have dropped out it can ruin the block and it would be scrap though, can a Triumph 6 Block be repaired after thrust washer fall out damage or is just the bearing cap and crank that get damaged? Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Sorry, bearing SHELLS! And it is more usuall for the block to wear too much for repair.j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Yes apparently the block can be damaged beyond economic repair (after all the thrust is taken by the block not the cap). If the crank moves that much the front camchain sprocket will do the same so causing a lot of misalignment of the chain and probably creating the noise you heard. However good that you didnt get the typical bearing rattle - might have caught them in time... Has the owner told you any thing about how the exact progression of the failure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyf Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 19 minutes ago, glang said: Yes apparently the block can be damaged beyond economic repair (after all the thrust is taken by the block not the cap). If the crank moves that much the front camchain sprocket will do the same so causing a lot of misalignment of the chain and probably creating the noise you heard. However good that you didnt get the typical bearing rattle - might have caught them in time... Has the owner told you any thing about how the exact progression of the failure? The owner isn't that mechanically minded I'm afraid. I do know that the car was owned for around 40 years or so by a Lady who lived in the same village as the current owner, he purchased the car off her Husband when he passed away, he inherited the car. My mate thought she may have been a driver who rode the clutch a lot at junctions and the car had done a lot of local journeys stopping and starting frequently, this would cause wear eventually I suppose. I've got to make a decision by the end of the week. I just hope the Block isn't ruined, only a strip down will confirm that Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 So did the owner get the car with engine like that or has it happened in his ownership? Has he driven it many miles? How about doing a deal on price with him which depends on the state the engines found to be in? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyf Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 48 minutes ago, glang said: So did the owner get the car with engine like that or has it happened in his ownership? Has he driven it many miles? How about doing a deal on price with him which depends on the state the engines found to be in? I have no idea, he purchased the car around 2013 and as only done a couple of thousand miles in it according to the M.O.T. history? I'm currently in discussions with him about the price, when I get a feel for how much it will cost to rebuild the engine and sort the other issues (Steering play, brakes pulling to one side and a new soft top needed) I'll make an offer and see what he says. I've been looking for a decent one since last July and I'm getting a bit fed up tbh, I suppose if I get this one I've got a few months before spring to hopefully sort all the issues ready for summer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Worst case is to buy another engine. A decent one will be around £500, and may well be good to use. Or a short engine for rebuild maybe £200ish. So nothing too desperate. If you just get the machining work done, but build/fit the engine yourself, allow £1k. That is my gut feeling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 That much end-float strongly suggests the thrust washers have dropped out. How much damage done depends on how much it’s been used since. Costs will depend on whether the block and crank are re-usable. Until you know that…. Complete used engines are still out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glang Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Yes the total thickness of two standard thrust bearings is only around 3/16" so difficult to see how there could be that much play without at least one missing☹️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyf Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 (edited) It's hard to be precise on how much play there is, it might be less than 3/16", my mate spotted it. The funny noise when depressing the clutch was worrying too I've told the guy I will make a decision by the weekend, the engine issue is the worst, the car also as other issues mechanically which although none are major will all need time and money spending to put right I'll keep you posted on what happens Gary Edited January 17 by garyf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRTOM2498 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Hi Gary, As above, if the block is rendered useless, due thrust washers, there are plenty of blocks out there. You can always have the replacement block re-faced and engine numbers re-stamped. Difficult to know what it will cost until stripped. I know something for sure. If you try to save a £1 rebuilding one, it will cost £10 down the line. There are no short-cuts to a successful engine build. Good luck. Cheers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) If you can get one that really was owned by an old lady who only drove it to the shops and back, it's got to be a bargain, even if she did ride the clutch! Edited January 17 by JohnD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyf Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 I've made what I thought was a realistic offer for the car but had a very negative reply, so the search goes on. How much is it these days for a decent, road worthy Vitesse convertible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 See: https://www.tssc.org.uk/tssc/uploaded_files/TSSC INS Vals April 23.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 10 minutes ago, JohnD said: See: https://www.tssc.org.uk/tssc/uploaded_files/TSSC INS Vals April 23.pdf Those are insurance valuations, not selling prices. I always reckon they are about 30% higher than what a car would achieve if sold. For reference, a friend nearly sold his mk2 CV for around 8k, but backed out of selling it. The buyer was understanding, but was a dealer, who would have marketed it for probably 11K? Nice very tidy vitesse with a few mods (seats, wheels, CVs etc, nothing drastic) and I would happily drive it anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) Well. You wanted a guide! Mumble grumble, gift horse grumble. The OP feared that the thrust washer was worn and might have worn the block beyond repair. Scott Helms in the US makes oversized thrust washers: https://customthrustwashers.com/ John Edited January 19 by JohnD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Dawes Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 15 hours ago, garyf said: I've made what I thought was a realistic offer for the car but had a very negative reply, so the search goes on. How much is it these days for a decent, road worthy Vitesse convertible? Hi Gary, maybe you could put a post on this forum under cars wanted section and include your budget price, there’s always a car for sale at some point within the club membership, good luck on your search 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyf Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 9 hours ago, Wendy Dawes said: Hi Gary, maybe you could put a post on this forum under cars wanted section and include your budget price, there’s always a car for sale at some point within the club membership, good luck on your search Wendy Good idea, just done it and thanks. Gary 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 On 19/01/2024 at 14:39, garyf said: I've made what I thought was a realistic offer for the car but had a very negative reply, so the search goes on. How much is it these days for a decent, road worthy Vitesse convertible? I reckon your man is holding out for a less knowledgeable punter who won’t realise the engine is done for until it’s too late…..😕 May be worth keeping an eye on. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyf Posted January 23 Author Share Posted January 23 (edited) 2 hours ago, Nick Jones said: I reckon your man is holding out for a less knowledgeable punter who won’t realise the engine is done for until it’s too late…..😕 May be worth keeping an eye on. The thought had crossed my mind too🤥 He did state when I first contacted him he was going to try and sell it in the Spring, which makes sense. I just hope any potential buyer takes it for a test run to discover the issues with the engine, brakes and steering. Gary Edited January 23 by garyf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 I suspect most cars for sale will have issues, I have noticed that standards seem to have dropped as people just say “ well it’s an old car, they all have poor (insert non working part)” If you want a good car, buy a solid basis and work to get it up to spec. Buying a car with no issues is going to be expensive, and it will still have things not right. If all that is wrong with that one is engine and brakes, but rest is very good, I would probably buy it and get mending, it will probably cost more than increase in value 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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