Dipped in green glass

[Nick Moore]

A lot of good points there guys. I won't be making any decisions in a hurry, as the inlet manifold's design will have to clear GT's headers, which I don't yet have. They're on their way though (the story of the headers will be worth a thread of its own, with a list of people to thank). I like the idea of retaining the original manifolds, replacing the plastic hoses with metal runners, and modifying the 'log' to increase its volume. We'll see.

In the meantime, a local company made me a driveshaft to connect the Supra gearbox and Subaru diff. At only 680mm long and 60mm wide, it's tiny, and very light. Strong though. The UJs are much chunkier than the originals, and the engineer said it's rated to 10,000 rpm. That works out as 190mph, so it won't be overstressed  

[vitesse203]

Hi, I used Pi manifolds but then put some 32 mm tube into them going back into my custom plenum. The tubes are seated into cut down rubber hose in the manifolds and go about 1/2 way into the plenum.

Regards

Paul

[Nick Moore]

I love this GT. It sits in the garage looking all gorgeous and green, waiting for me to come down and do something to it, and unlike the Herald, doesn't get cranky if I ignore it for a week or two. Today, after tightening the Herald's B pillars (see "What I've Done To My Triumph Today'), I spent a happy hour or so tidying up the wiring to the GT6's alternator in its new, lower position. Mounting the alternator low down means that the fan belt is a lot further from the wire to the crank sensor (you do NOT want to damage that wire) and makes the motor look tidier. It did mean extending the power feed to the starter motor and re-wrapping the loom. All tidy again and OCD was fed

Then I started on the ignition circuitry.

CAUTION - the next bit gets techy-nick-al. Skip to the last paragraph if you start to glaze over 😉

The car has been built with Microsquirt v3, a compact version of Megasquirt DIY EFI, instead of carburettors and distributor. All the glowing testimonials explain how it can do nearly everything its bigger cousin can, it comes ready-made and tested and just needs wiring up. So, neatly tucked up under the dashboard is a wee brain the size of a pack of cigarettes, its wiring harness gradually getting connected to the various sensors and power feeds. It'll control the injectors directly and the three ignition coils via a tiny Bosch device called a coil driver. Clue - remember the number 3.

The ignition wiring had me re-reading the various manuals on the net. There have been numerous iterations of Micro and Megasquirt, so the support websites are incredibly convoluted and information-dense. What's true for one version isn't necessarily true for the next, and it pays never to make assumptions. My problem today was that I needed three wires from the Microsquirt to the Bosch coil driver, and the Microsquirt has two. Another hour's less happy reading showed where I'd been mislead.

Microsquirt's tech info explains that it can control up to four coils. Cool, I only have three. But it controls those four coils in pairs, so in effect it drives two coils, each firing two plugs. Microsquirt, therefore, can only directly spark four cylinders. For six cylinders, you need to run the ignition via an EDIS-6. If you want to get rid of the EDIS unit and drive the coils directly, you need Megasquirt-3, or an evolved version of Microsquirt called MS3-Pro. The way I'd thought it could be done, can't be. And nowhere in the online documentation does it say this. Nowhere.

I'll say it here so the Googlebots will pick it up: Microsquirt v3 will not directly fire three coils, or work on six cylinders without EDIS.

So, I can either fit an EDIS-6 or upgrade the brain to MS3-Pro or similar. Thing is, EDIS feels like a bodge at this point, something to get the car running, but a backward step in its development. I'd planned to upgrade to MS3-Pro in a couple of years anyway and try sequential injection - MS3-Pro wasn't available when I was choosing my car's 'brain', or I might have fitted it from the start. But replacing the brain now isn't the cheapest solution, so I'm sulking.

(The Microsquirt module won't be a wasted purchase, as I'd like to convert the Herald to EFI with one of Tim Ward's manifolds).

As for the inlet manifold, I think I'll stick with the PI setup, and open up the plenum to increase its capacity. This car will have to go through an engineer's inspection before hitting the road, and using factory components will look more 'stock', less boy-racer-ish. I'll probably wear a flat cap rather than a baseball cap for the inspection, too. In the meantime, here's a gratuitous shot of the car's bum, ie the finished end 😉

[rotoflex]

It looks gorgeous.  Did you really get "GT6" for your legal license plate?

[Nick Moore]

Thanks Bill, it's hard to go wrong with a rear end like that. And yes, that's its license plate, not that it's registered for the road yet. You can also see that the hatch door doesn't sit flush, even though the plastic striker plate looks unworn. I suspect I'll have to make a new one. Oh, and it'll be tuned a bit past anything 'SAH' offered, but I couldn't resist the sticker 🙂

[byakk0]

Looks like you have a 3rd brake light. What did you use?
Excelling looking car, I might add.

[Nick Jones]

You are right about the Megasquirt family having grown into a complex monster......  Makes my head hurt!

FWIW, if you use the conventional MS2 (on version 3 Hardware) that comes with a single coil driver, but it is easy to add two more so you can drive 3 coils - enough for 6 cylinders on wasted spark.  The package is not as neat as Microsquirt though.

Nick

[mikeyb]

makes me wonder if emerald is a better way forwards now . . .

[Deleted User]

I found my Squirt build a relative straightforward one, built from a kit and following the build instructions.

The fitting was straight forwards and other than a few niggles which I am sure you will get with every build the Megasquirt was the right route for me.

Rob

[andy thompson]

Not sure why you think EDIS 6 is a bodge - I thought it was a very neat robust component

[Nick Moore]

A little bit more tinkering... the PI manifolds and fuel rail have been drilled to accept Bosch 0280 155 712 injectors. The manifolds still have to be angled downwards so that the fuel rail clears the bonnet. I won't be able to 'cut and shut' the PI manifolds until my set of GT headers arrive and I can see the shape of their primaries. Some of his designs have the primaries turning down sharply, while on others the primaries come out straight from the head before turning downwards. But the latest word is that they're on their way   🙂

In the meantime, the next jobs are to open up the 'log' to increase its volume, and make a flange to mount the MGF throttle body on the front.

Oh, and the towel-wrapped vat in the background is my brother's stout reactor 😎

[GT6 M]

Its no what yer wanting to hear,  BUTT, the injectors cables / cover will catch bonnet,
you will have to get some 90 deg boots, and even then turn NO 1 fully to the side, and with them boots, 2,3,4 will most likely touch too.
been there found it all oot.
and there is no way that fuel rail is going to fit with oot touching.

can shuv engine back a wee bit, but the logg then fouls the bulkheed.
can lower engine, but then the sump gets fowld, and maybe also ex mani, depending on design.
Hava good long look at me PB pics. study and digest. its no thea for show ye no,!!

you can get the imani  injector basese milled deeper an 1/8th, that  will help a little
all the probs are wid  NO 1 end

to give ye an idea, my rail is not much higher than the take off towers for hoses,
and its Still v v tight at front, yours is an inch highr by the look of it.

As for  the single throttle, that needs to be angled doon quite a way too.
might be easier to mek it come frae the under neath!!!

M

[Nick Moore]

Yep, as it is now, there's no way the bonnet will close. The rail and boots will all hit. My plan is to cut, mill and weld the PI manifolds to lower the injectors and fuel rail, as others have done before me. But before I can decide how far to angle the PI manifolds downwards, I need the headers. No point dropping them really low and then not being able to fit the exhaust!

Tim Ward set his PI manifolds horizontal, judging from the photo, and the other (from Craig Trimble I think) angled them even further down. Higher is probably better for flow and injector angle, so there's a trade-off right there. To be continued...

[Royboy66]

Nick, I think Tim's were cut and re welded angled down a bit, he still had to chamfer the front of fuel rail,  it's tight under there lol !

Roy

[Royboy66]

I can't find a decent pic to show Tim's but you can see it in this vid I took ...http://youtu.be/ug9LqEFQmmI

Roy 😎

[GT6 M]

Tims, with them angled doon alott, with time and expanse, still touched bonnet
and this was with bonnet lifted at front, altering the rear gaps.

them stupid after market fuel rails are nee good for a GT.
would have took ye aboot 4 hours to make yer own that would work ok.

Ye need a diff fuel rail , and 90 deg boots,  Ole Bean



M

[GT6 M]

Just for ye Nick, and any others going EFI on a GT,
went an took some pics of whats needed to dee job reet.an to get it to fit
wid nee issues, as its all been sorted and tried oot for owa 12 years noo.

Note, NO 1 end is the problemo end, so the end T needs modded slightly for best results.
drill the T oot, and cut end lip off the 90 deg joint, so that it fits further into the T
this will get it back even further, as its still tight, if ye wnt a decent bonnet panel gap.

And can also, as I did on MK1 version, which was better, but harder work, was to cut the T, so it angled doon on the shaft nearest front but there a lot of work in this

The T,s need drilling ot for the Stainless sleeve, just on the bits that ga into Injector, drill so its a v tight press fit , using  a vice to pust in, put glue on it as its going in
Sleeves also need cut doon to match the T,s depth
I soldered aboot the end to tidy it up, as in pic NOTE, solder dont like taking to the SS  sleeves, but  Araldite works OK, as the end one was re done this way later for MK2 version , and it aint leaked.

may be of help to some,

parts needed

1, 10 mm solid brass Ts


2, 10 mm copper pipe
3, stainless steel inserts, { of plastic pipe fittings }











MK1 end fitting, see hoo T is cut so its angled doon to get moer space.
ITS the end of the T and aboot 1/2 inch forads thats the problemo.
cutting the T back, shortening the 90 deg joint gets similar result

AND note that NO 1 injector boot is turned as far backwards as poss,
this is so the 90 deg boot does not foul bonnet, its that tight in thea





4, some end fittings in 10,or 8 mm.
5, some small mikalor type clamps  { for sealing hose joints }
6, some HP Nylon / rubber hose  { for joining each set t,githa }
M

[Nick Jones]

Pic 1.  The Omega loom used on my PI had right-angled ends on the injector plugs

Pic 2. On the Vitesse the fabricated manifold made it possible to rotate the injectors through 180º so the wires go under the fuel rail.  Not sure if this is possible with PI TBs?

Nick

[Nick Moore]

Marcus and Nick, thank you both for those pics. Looks like I've still got a bit of scratching of the no. 1 noggin to do... I could yet end up ditching the PI manifolds and recreating Nick's manifold. If I do that I'll keep the PI's plenum, which I've opened out to 4". No photos until it's pretty.

I saw a picture somewhere recently of a Triumph where the injectors were connected to the fuel rail by rubber hoses (a lá XJ6). Does anyone know where it was?

My next step will be to fit my header's primaries to the spare head (not noggin) and see how much room there is to play with. As for those headers, they're in transit from the UK to western Oz. Then they'll get shipped to Melbourne where some secondaries will be made up with a jig, and the completed header will be freighted north to me in Brisbane.  

[Nick Jones]

Injectors with barbs for hose feed tend be from the early days of injection.  In Europe the only thing I've ever seen them on are old straight 6 GM products such as Opel Monza and Vauxhall Senator plus a BMW 3.0 CSi but I reckon there must be others.  The link suggests there are also Denso ones out there presumably used on old Japanese stuff.

http://www.sdsefi.com/injectors.htm

Googling suggests old injected Jags had barb injectors and hoses - and also that they used to leak and catch fire.....

This might be worth a read too
http://www.zcar.com/forum/10-7.....arbed-rail-pics.html

Nick

[Nick Moore]

Putting the inlet manifold to one side for a while... a local brake specialist made up a braided hydraulic line to connect the GT6 clutch master cylinder to the Toyota slave cylinder. Exciting - I'd finally be able to see if the finagled and finessed clutch plates and mechanism really work! With the line in place, I filled up the master cylinder's reservoir and started pumping. However, the pedal was suspiciously light and the fluid level wasn't dropping. I quickly worked out that the master cylinder's plunger wasn't returning, and that no amount of firm language or gently tapping the cylinder with a spanner would dislodge it. So, out with the whole cylinder and after much banging on a brick, the plunger popped out. The problem? The cylinder had had new seals fitted about five years ago but hadn't been used. As a result the bore was covered in surface rust. If you take too long restoring a car, you gotta do some bits again 🤔  Or store them properly  

The cylinder's seal was scratched from the rust, so I had a choice of buying a new seal kit and trying again, or splashing out on a new cylinder. I bought repro brake and clutch cylinders for my Herald earlier this year, and have found that their plastic caps seal much better than Girling's tin tops. No wee splashes of paint stripper brake fluid all over the bulkhead! So I decided to buy a new repro cylinder for the GT6. I've read that the components of repro cylinders can be iffy, but the Herald's have been OK so far.

It'll be a couple more weeks before I'll know whether the clutch works as it should.

[Nick Moore]

Good news - the clutch works! I fitted a standard GT6's 5/8" master cylinder last night, bled it and voilà! Spinning the motor on the starter showed that depressing the clutch does disengage it. However, it looks like I should have fitted a larger bore master cylinder. The slave cylinder only moves about 10mm, the pedal is light enough to push down by hand, and it only disengages very near the floor. I've ordered a TR6-spec 3/4" master cylinder, which will make it heavier but should move the clutch arm further. That's just fine-tuning though. The clutch, that Toyota - Triumph hybrid hanging off a TR6 steel flywheel, works as it should 🙂

The other news is that the exhaust is slowly coming together. Craig ('GT6Mk3') and I bought matching 6-3-1 header primaries from Wales, and will bend up the secondaries on a jig that was supplied. Completing the manifolds in Australia means we can make sure they're exactly the right shape before welding them up. It also means I can fine-tune the length of the secondaries - I'd like looong ones for more mid-range torque - the second photo shows a long set built for a Vitesse. The headers are currently at Craig's place in Melbourne.

I'd also like to fit dual downpipes, which is supposed to avoid the exhaust 'drone' that some sixes suffer from.

[byakk0]

Wow, dual headers and six springs. That must be some GT6 you have going on! 😀

Anyway, good looking car. Glad to hear you are getting closer to the finish(?) line.

[CP72]

Nice exhaust! Looks well made! 🙂

[Nick Moore]

The TR6 clutch master cylinder has delivered the goods, with a much better feel and a bite point further off the floor. It's a lot heavier, too - good for building up thigh muscles but maybe not much fun in traffic jams.

I tested it by pulling the plugs and spinning the engine on the starter. Amazingly, it produced 60psi oil pressure