Dipped in green glass

[Nick Moore]

Yesterday's tinkering featured an almighty battle to install central locking. The idea is that the car can be locked and unlocked without a bunch of keys scraping the paintwork under the door lock. I used a universal kit from Mongoose, which meant hours of fitting, testing, tweaking and refitting before it worked properly. For a while the driver's window mechanism was jamming the guide rod, and of course that was all happening out of sight behind the inner panel. Some skin was lost but the battle was won. The radio signalling components haven't been hooked up yet, but closing the control circuit locks and unlocks both doors. The left hand door isn't quite finished, as it needs a couple of clips and anti-rattle guides that all the usual suspects list as 'not available'.

The car was winched out of the garage so that I could have both doors open, and it got caught in a rain shower. That made eight months' garage dust look even worse, so she got her first wash, and then a proper wax to protect the raw paint. At the risk of being branded a polisher, it's even shinier than before, and smells nice too The headlight surrounds have finally been nailed in place, and really finish the front end of the car. The right hand one had been distorted in an accident and straightened, but it still has a couple of mm gap at the top. Ah dammit, it's one of those things that only the restorer sees.

One of the last systems to recommission is the horns. The originals are being restored by Bill Davies (Hi Bill!), but after the circuits were complete, I couldn't get the relay to work. It's a brand new reproduction, but the coil is open circuit. They really don't make them like they used to I fitted a modern plastic relay, and when the horn ring was pressed the relay clicked and a test light fitted in place of the horns lit up. I'll fish out the car's original relay, which had also been bypassed with a modern one but was still in place. Maybe the car just prefers modern black plastic relays!

Oh, the loudspeaker hanging out of the boot is connected to the radio. The GT doubles as my workshop radio

[WIMPUS]

i also installed central locking yesterday  

[WIMPUS]

Quoted from WIMPUS

i also installed central locking yesterday  

Do you have some pictures of you central locking system installation ? 😉

[Nick Moore]

Hi Wim,
I'm away working for a couple of weeks, so can't photograph it right now. But I can describe it...

The push-pull motor in each door is mounted in the large square-ish hole at the front of the door, well clear of the window glass and mechanism. It's as far away from the door lock as possible, but that doesn't matter. That was just about the only location to mount it, and it doesn't get jarred as much from the door shutting. The motor is mounted to a metal strip that came in the universal kit, and that strip is screwed to the inside door skin. The motor has a rod which moves backwards and forwards. This rod is connected by a small bracket, also in the kit, to the rod in the door that connects the black plastic lock-unlock knob to the door lock mechanism.

The motor in the driver's door has a switch in it, so it can sense when the internal door lock has been flicked. Lock the driver's door from the inside, and the motor in the passenger door locks that door. One thing it doesn't do is lock the lock when the key is used in the driver's door as I don't think locking the latch with the key moves the black plastic knob inside the car.

The next step is to install the radio remote controlled switch. When that receives a signal it closes a circuit momentarily, which will then alternately lock and unlock the doors.

Hope that helps a bit. If I can do it, anyone can.

[WIMPUS]

Quoted from Nick Moore

Hi Wim,
I'm away working for a couple of weeks, so can't photograph it right now. But I can describe it...

The push-pull motor in each door is mounted in the large square-ish hole at the front of the door, well clear of the window glass and mechanism. It's as far away from the door lock as possible, but that doesn't matter. That was just about the only location to mount it, and it doesn't get jarred as much from the door shutting. The motor is mounted to a metal strip that came in the universal kit, and that strip is screwed to the inside door skin. The motor has a rod which moves backwards and forwards. This rod is connected by a small bracket, also in the kit, to the rod in the door that connects the black plastic lock-unlock knob to the door lock mechanism.

The motor in the driver's door has a switch in it, so it can sense when the internal door lock has been flicked. Lock the driver's door from the inside, and the motor in the passenger door locks that door. One thing it doesn't do is lock the lock when the key is used in the driver's door as I don't think locking the latch with the key moves the black plastic knob inside the car.

The next step is to install the radio remote controlled switch. When that receives a signal it closes a circuit momentarily, which will then alternately lock and unlock the doors.

Hope that helps a bit. If I can do it, anyone can.

hi nick !

I've installed a kit that i bought from ebay (germany) .. but i guess there are all the same
i've got 2 motors with 5 wires .. so if i lock the passenger door with the key it also locks the drivers door  

Where did you get the wires in the door ? that's the only thing i need photo's from .. i've seen yesterday some photo's on a blog here on forum from your car with the motor showing 😉

I've put the motor at the back of the door.

also i've got the idea from Rick Baines his own blog : http://triumphspitfire.rickbaines.com/central-locking-on-a-spitfire/
Did you also make the blinkers work when you lock/unlock the car ?   I did !

I've drilles some holes in the door , just need to get a rubber sleeve or something for the wires to go true 🙂 Then i can get the wire's installed good in the door 😉

[Bainzy]

Wim, on mine I just wrapped them in black electrical tape and fed them between the door card and door assembly. It's pretty hard to spot them when the door is open, impossible when the door is shut.

You might find the motor works better if it's at a more horizontal angle - not following the angle of the connecting rods.

Nick's location is a lot better as there's less wasted energy by the motors, but unfortunately us Spitfire owners can't put them there as our door glass fouls that area. Not so on a GT6 as it has quarterlights above. I reckon if you put GT6 doors on you could get both central locking AND electric windows working fairly reliably.

[junkuser]

Not sure how your system is linked together Wim but I pictured that the first link from the actuator (the one that looks like a bicycle spoke) should run in line with the actuator, so its loading is linear rather than lateral.

[WIMPUS]

Quoted from junkuser

Not sure how your system is linked together Wim but I pictured that the first link from the actuator (the one that looks like a bicycle spoke) should run in line with the actuator, so its loading is linear rather than lateral.

but like bainzy says .. there is a lot more room at the front of the door in a GT6 than in a Spitfire 🤔

[WIMPUS]

Quoted from Bainzy

Wim, on mine I just wrapped them in black electrical tape and fed them between the door card and door assembly. It's pretty hard to spot them when the door is open, impossible when the door is shut.

You might find the motor works better if it's at a more horizontal angle - not following the angle of the connecting rods.

Nick's location is a lot better as there's less wasted energy by the motors, but unfortunately us Spitfire owners can't put them there as our door glass fouls that area. Not so on a GT6 as it has quarterlights above. I reckon if you put GT6 doors on you could get both central locking AND electric windows working fairly reliably.

And is yours still like on your blog ? or like mine sort of 🙂 And does yours still work ok ? 😉

[Bainzy]

Had to adjust it once because a screw came out, second time I used threadlock and it hasn't fallen out since.

They're not absolutely perfect, but I know they could be. The passenger door adjustment seems to have slipped a bit, I just can't be bothered fixing it. Car is on the road most days and I'm far too busy with other things in life to spend messing with it at the moment.

The drivers door hasn't been touched since the day I installed it and has never given me problems. I think that's because on that side, instead of using the supplied fixings, I used a strip of aluminium - the one you can see in the photos on my site. The passenger door mechanism slips gradually over time using the fixings in the box (like yours), because the force of the actuator is so strong that it shakes it, and having elongated holes instead of small, precise holes, allows that movement to happen.

Have you tested the actuator fully Wim? If not you might be disappointed with the location you have it in now, I can't see it having enough throw at that 45 degree angle and even if it does, it's putting unnecessary strain on the actuator.

[WIMPUS]

Quoted from Bainzy

Had to adjust it once because a screw came out, second time I used threadlock and it hasn't fallen out since.

They're not absolutely perfect, but I know they could be. The passenger door adjustment seems to have slipped a bit, I just can't be bothered fixing it. Car is on the road most days and I'm far too busy with other things in life to spend messing with it at the moment.

The drivers door hasn't been touched since the day I installed it and has never given me problems. I think that's because on that side, instead of using the supplied fixings, I used a strip of aluminium - the one you can see in the photos on my site. The passenger door mechanism slips gradually over time using the fixings in the box (like yours), because the force of the actuator is so strong that it shakes it, and having elongated holes instead of small, precise holes, allows that movement to happen.

Have you tested the actuator fully Wim? If not you might be disappointed with the location you have it in now, I can't see it having enough throw at that 45 degree angle and even if it does, it's putting unnecessary strain on the actuator.

been working on the door locks that they worked good and then fiddle with the motors & co , now 1 door is working really good and the passenger door is good 😉  That's why i did'nt  put the door panels back in yet 🙂

[Nick Moore]

My engine's bottom end has been machined and balanced, so I'll pick it up this week. The next bit to get machined is the block - I've split up the jobs to control costs.

One question - are cam bearings necessary for a 2.5L road engine with relatively soft (Jaguar) valve springs and a TR5 camshaft? The old camshaft's journals looked pretty good.

I'm asking because boring the cam gallery to fit bearings is a major job, and if it's not necessary for what I'm building, I won't bother. I seem to remember that Nick Jones had bearings fitted to one engine and the machinists screwed the job up... so omitting them is one less thing to go wrong?

[Anthony]

No experience here, but I've been told its good practice for a 2000 racer, but not necessary on a 2500

(Just what I've read though)

[Nick Jones]

Well, Triumph themselves ran the TR5s and 6s with no cam bearings...... so I guess you don't really need them.  Revs and big lifts/strong springs are the enemy

Shouldn't be a big deal for a competent machine shop to line bore for cam bearings but I'd suggest doing before other machine work!  The problem is the length of the 6 pot.  Mine is fixed apparently.  Hope to collect next week.

Nick

[Nick Moore]

I'm back from baking in the Queensland coalfields again, so this morning the Herald and I went out to Ipswich, west of Brisbane, and picked up the GT6's engine bits from Terry O'Beirne. The wee red rocket was due for a blast after two weeks in the Carcoon, and the Ipswich motorway let it stretch its little legs. We even tried to keep up with a V8 Vantage for a while. It's fun to hear the exhaust aka Early Warning System echo off overpasses and embankments Some nice pops on the downhill bits, too. Of course once I was on the motorway it started raining - thankfully, after all these years I'm pretty good at closing the sunroof on the move!

I'd dropped off the crank, flywheel, clutch pressure plate and crank pulley for balancing before Christmas. Long stroke Triumph engines' crankshafts are flexible, and snapped cranks aren't uncommon. Kas Kastner reputedly measured a half inch of flex at the flywheel rim at 6200rpm! We won't be pulling those revs, but I still don't want a heavy flywheel flapping around on the back of the crank and so went for a light steel flywheel. It's held on by six ARP bolts rather than four, so Terry drilled two extra holes in the back of the crankshaft. The flywheel also came with 3/8"dowels, but the holes in the flywheel had been drilled too big (by the supplier, not me), so Terry drilled the hole to 10mm and made a 10mm to 3/8" stepped dowel. One place you do want to retain some weight is in the crankshaft harmonic balancer. I'd bought one with a pulley groove machined into the balancer ring. Terry threw it out and gave me an original one.

Because work is slow and I'm counting my pennies, I got a guesstimate for boring and decking the block, and align honing the mains - might as well make sure the block is straight. All up, $800-ish. Terry told me flatly that he thought cam bearings are useless. He didn't think journal wear would be a problem unless I was fitting stiffer valve springs and a high lift camshaft, which I'm not. Jag springs and a TR5 camshaft, at least to start with. My goal is a smooth-running, responsive torque monster rather than a short stroke screamer, so that's settled. No camshaft bearings. I'll drop the block out in a few days time. Should make the Herald sit nice and low 😎

[Nick Moore]

Today was a day I've been planning for years - the day the GT6's engine went to the reconditioner. All of the engine this time. Well, most of it. The bottom bits, anyway.

Oily bits are more fun than rust and dust, so I pulled the motor apart back in 2009, long before I started on the bodywork. It was fascinating to compare a US-spec engine with a UK (and rest of world) version. US-spec GT6 Mk3s were rated at 79bhp  , had low compression thanks to deep heads and flat top pistons, very boring camshafts, weird timing (4 degrees ATDC!), and emissions gear attached to the carbs and fuel tank. All that's gonna change. Who wants to bet that I can double that bhp figure?

Back in 2009, once I knew what I had, the search for parts began. I originally planned to build a 2.1L rev-machine like Andy Thompson's screamer, but after riding to Prescott (and up it) in Royboy's 2.5L Mk1, I decided I'd prefer the torque of a long-stroke motor instead. Big sticky gobs of full fat creamy torque, please.

So, back out to Ipswich to drop off the block, crankshaft, bearings, rods, pistons and Andy Thompson's torque plate at Terry's. He'll bore the block 60 thou and then dummy-assemble the short block to see how much the block will need decking, and whether the piston skirts clear the crank counterweights and rods. They should, but best we find out now! He'll also modify the rear main to take a full thrust washer, and align hone the main journals. We don't have the rings yet, so I'll have the fun of doing the final assembly later.

The hardest part today was wrestling the damned block into the Herald's boot single handed. Why couldn't Triumph have used nice light alloy blocks? It looks a bit hard on the wee red monster, but I figured that a bare block weighs no more than a passenger. Although I don't usually carry passengers in the boot. And passengers are cleaner.

[That Man]

Hi Nick, is it just my eyesight or are two of flywheel bolts a different size ? the bolt heads at 10 o'clock and 4 o'clock look smaller ?

  
Gordon

[Anthony]

Nick
What was it that you preferred about Roy's motor?

I was planning on going 2.5ltr, but once I started tearing my engine apart it looked far too nice not to keep and rebuild


So, I'm planning on an engine like Andy's to start with, then maybe I'll build a spare 2.6ltr once the car is back on the road

[Nick Moore]

Gordon - well spotted, you're right. Two of the six ARP flywheel bolts have smaller heads, because if we used all large-head bolts, the heads clash. The small head bolts came with the flywheel, so I don't know their part number, but they have the same thread, shank diameter and length as the normal ARP bolts (which are actually for a Chevrolet V.

Anthony - I don't think Roy has done anything special to his engine. It was just the feeling that the car was essentially two seats strapped to the back of an engine, or maybe a giant elastic band. It pulled hard from low revs, and Roy never needed to change down to accelerate hard. We were in a convoy (Royvoy) behind Tim Ward, whose GT6 has essentially a TR5 motor. It's on EFI now but was on carbs then. When Tim booted it, his car just receded into the distance, and I remember thinking that if I spent a lot of money on my engine and it was slower than Tim's, I would be very disappointed. So, when I met Gareth Thomas at Prescott, I changed my order from 2L plus 60 thou pistons to 2.5L plus 60 thou. And as soon as I got home, I started looking for a 2.5 crank!

[Anthony]

Cool, what's Gareth doing for you?

[GT6 M]

Nick,ye wont find it much different to your V8 Herald im thinking,!!! be very pleaed with it.
Here a wee tip for your cam and tappets.  cos ye no be useing engine for a while, then alott of the lube can / will drop off.

I got a tin of dry film lube.  its a graphite spray, and it sticks like sheite.
but dissolves when oil gets hot.
so cover cam in it, and followers, let dry, then assemble.

used it on last cam i put in, maybe should have found it sooner.
some blurb for ye,

http://www.surfacetechnology.co.uk/coatings/dry-film-lubricants/

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=dry%20film%20lubricant&_sop=2


this the one i used,got it of Al an Rod, they use it,it must be good.
http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320832371194

dont want yer new engine to eat its cam ,like most others seem to doo.

M

[Anthony]

Marcus, can you put that stuff on cranks and other things too?

Think I'll be in the same position as Nick with a freshly rebuilt engine just sitting for a long time before bring run


I haven't started rebuilding my engine as I didn't want it standing for too long, but it sounds like you've got something that will fix that worry

[thescrapman]

Quoted from Anthony

Cool, what's Gareth doing for you?

Please think very carefully before answering this question... 😉

[GT6 M]

I would say so, but maybe dont have to build it up as much as I did on the cam lobes and tappets.
ye gotta get the bearing caps tight,so too much build up may make em too tight initially.!!!

it wont run off like ordinary oil does, so yer engine can sit for yonks plus ages, { a lang time }
and still have lube onit.
it wont dissolve either till oil gets  hot, so again plenty of initial friction proofer.

Im sure I mentioned this when I was having cam trouble. be on a thread some where, but im useless at finding old posts.

ohh ye got the plugg oot yet,!!!

M

[Nick Moore]

Anthony - Gareth has provided a set of 60 thou oversize 2.5 pistons, and some supposedly high-flowing valves. A set of extractors and progressive rate front suspension springs are also on order. Just as importantly, he's provided advice on what to modify and what to leave well alone. I've usually listened...

Marcus - thanks for the advice on cam lube. Hopefully the engine won't sit for more than a few months before starting, as once it's together, I'll start work on the EFI system. I was thinking yesterday that the original followers look fine. Years ago I put a set of refaced followers in my Herald, and they've lasted 50,000 miles. Instead of fitting cheese soft aftermarket ones, or tuftrided ones that would eat my new camshaft, I think I'll see if the originals can be refaced without eating through the factory hardening.