vitesse suspension mods

[Weston]

New member - first post

I am in the process of re-building a MK2 vitesse.  It has been reasonably straight forward however I have a problem - the rear suspension has a 3/4 inch lowering block with GAZ shocks.  For the front suspension  I would like to lower it by a similar amount and I am trying to locate 1 inch lower springs but I am having no luck.   Rimmers have stopped supplying them. Can anyone suggest an alternative way of lowering the front end or would anyone have some 1 inch shorter springs they would like to sell?  Many thanks Andy.  

[PeteStupps]

Welcome Andy. I do not have a Vitesse but I do know where you can get springs from:

https://dfaulknersprings.com/product-category/standard-springs/2-5-inch-id-standard-springs/

The puzzle is choosing the right free-length and spring rate, to achieve the desired ride height. When you lower the car you really want stiffer springs, to compensate for the lost suspension travel. However if you go 1" shorter and stiffer, then they won't compress as much under the weight of the car and you could end up no lower than before. If you go much stiffer than standard then the dampers will need upgrading too, and that can get relatively expensive.

I don't have my workshop manual to hand so can't tell you what the standard springs are - surely someone else on here has lowered their Vitesse recently though...?

By the way, got any side-on photos? Just out of interest. I lowered my Spitfire's front end but went a bit too far. Need to get some spring spacers to lift it up slightly. 

Pete

[Gt6s]

I0.5 in free length 330 lb

[Weston]

Thanks for the reply Pete, I have phoned Faulkners and spoke to Andy - very informative and he said along the same lines as yourself, including taking measurements and photos with old spring units in place - too late! units are on the bench, car on axle stands.  However I do have a workshop manual so I will check sizes etc.  New springs £80 each - ouch!  made to order - seems extreme.

Also thanks Lawrence for spring sizes - even more confused now as Vitesse  workshop manual stares that spring size is 12.49 free length load 940 lbs

Cheers Andy

 

[RobPearce]

Quoted from Bmwalpina-

Also thanks Lawrence for spring sizes - even more confused now as Vitesse  workshop manual stares that spring size is 12.49 free length load 940 lbs

That 940lb figure is the "fitted load", which is not a characteristic of the spring but of the vehicle. The 330 figure Laurence quoted is the spring rate in lb/in, which the WSM gives as 229 for the soft 12.49" spring. The 10.5/330 spring is often considered a "mild upgrade" by people who like a firmer ride.

Plugging in the 940lb load, the 10.5/330 also lowers the vehicle by about an inch

[PeteStupps]

Quoted from Bmwalpina-

Thanks for the reply Pete, I have phoned Faulkners and spoke to Andy - very informative and he said along the same lines as yourself, including taking measurements and photos with old spring units in place - too late! units are on the bench, car on axle stands.  However I do have a workshop manual so I will check sizes etc.  New springs £80 each - ouch!  made to order - seems extreme.

 

If you need your money to go further (don't we all) it looks like Rimmers have 'uprated' Vitesse springs currently available https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-209009UR

These won't be as stiff as Laurence's suggestion but might get your desired result. Unfortunately they don't give actual dimensions so it's a bit of a shot in the dark. 

I'm a skinflint and fitted their 'uprated' Spitfire springs, and am pleased with them. Although I now can't fit my trolley jack under the anti-roll bar so had to make a pair of little ramps... 

[Weston]

Again thanks for the info Pete, I have checked Rimmers - they are in stock, it  looks like this could be the answer. Maybe it would also be a good idea to treat her to adjustable shocks. Cheers Andy 

[daver clasper]

Just wondering, that a lot of those pro custom shops in the State's, just cut down the springs to get them lower, though I guess it's about the tension as well as has mentioned above .

Dave

[Baxter]

Andy, just saw your post and hope this is in time to help. I recently fitted some UR Rimmers springs to my Vitesse and I can show you exactly how long they are in the photo below - 11.5". They're meant to lower the car about 1" compared with standard set up. For me they've raised it a 1.5" as they replaced some grim 8" 380lb springs that my dampers could never stop bouncing, and the car was too low to get onto my drive; and as for trying to get a trolley jack underneath...

 

[Baxter]

Pete, you mentioned side on photos. Here's one of my Vitesse newly fitted with the Rimmers UR springs up front (20% stiffer and 1" lower they say), and a new leaf (swing) spring on a 1/2" lowering block at the back. I've read that a 1/2" lowering block translates to 1" lower body.

It sits 6.5" from ground to sill at the front and 7.5" at the back. NB the back was at 6" on the old spring WITHOUT the lowering block. So I've raised my car by adding a lowering block and a new leaf spring! The old spring was so tired it was almost 1.5" 'flatter' than the new when I put them side-by-side.

Andy, welcome to the club. I've spent hours and hours struggling with suspension and ride height, and have all sorts of photos and measurements and experience on different dampers. Happy to share any info I may have of use to you. Good luck with your rebuild, and don't forget to post lots of pictures!

[glang]

Sits nicely and I think the back might go down a bit more with a few miles on it. How does the before and after drive compare?

[Baxter]

Glang,

'After' is just brilliant compared with 'before'. 50mph and above on a typical B road became uncontrollably bouncy before. I had adjustable AVOs all round and tried the full range of adjustment but never found a non-bouncy setting. I tend to like things firm rather than soft, but really don't like bouncing out of control. Pot holes were always a bit jarring. Now it's pretty smooth and stays controlled whatever the speed and over some pretty rough surfaces. I fitted Konis thanks to Nick Jones and others recommending them. I clicked them to +1 out of 4 (for most firm). Will try higher setttings if I get to an autosolo :)

Trouble with before v after is that I changed everything. My old leaf spring was clearly knackered. The PO had only just put it in to convert to swing-spring, but it was 'pre-owned' and luckily I decided to start from scratch in search of a good ride. Also, a specialist had fitted rear seatbelts, and one of the bolts for the seat belt clasps was interfering with the leaf spring! Hard to know where all the problems and noises were coming from. One of my front AVOs leaked all its oil out after just 2 years and took me back to bump steer. Otherwise I think they were good dampers, let down by exhausted spring at the back and too excitable 8" 380lb springs up front. Life is also much better 1.5" higher. I had so many groundings before, and if I could get a trolley jack under I often trapped it on lowering. I couldn't even get it onto the ramp at my local MOT tester without some planks smoothing things out.

 

 

[ferny]

Mine certainly handles better lower, but with the big exhaust I only get an inch of ground clearance. Country roads and all speed bumps become a problem. I have to raise it for the RBRR and MOT but normally it has a 1" block, 1" lower springs at 500lb and standard anti-roll bar with rose joints. Shocks are Gaz adjustable. The video shows it handles alright. Cant wait to get the Subaru diff in so I can accelerate though! When it's at normal settings it just doesn't feel as planted, but i worry less about clouting the exhaust on bumpy roads, which more than makes up for it.

 

https://youtu.be/XXOUuEb6spY

 

[Baxter]

Nice video - handling looks great, and I love the sound!

[Weston]

Hello Baxter, thanks for the welcome it is a brilliant and informative forum.  I have already purchased Rimmers uprated springs and GAZ shocks. I will fit them and hopefully be able to adjust the height on the shocks (any thoughts?).  Also what size wheels/tyres do you run on, any issues with fouling?  Thanks Andy

[Baxter]

Hey Andy, good to hear you're enjoying the forum.

Adjusting the ride height at the front depends on whether or not your new 'shocks' have fixed or adjustable spring seats. If adjustable, you can rotate the seat with a large c spanner to raise or lower the base of the spring. Often 'adjustable' on the description of a shock/damper is referring only to the rebound/compression damping, controlled by a knob on the side.

If you've got fixed spring seats you need to change the front springs to adjust ride height. At the rear the leaf springs are to a standard spec and you use a lowering block between the spring and the diff to lower ride height.

Hope that helps! I have some lovely old Dunlop 5.5J x 13 wheels, but I like fairly narrow rubber on these cars, so I'm running 165/70 x 13. No fouling, as the PO lowered the car and made other mods to try to replicate the Monte Carlo Vitesses, including (he told me) 'rolling in' the inside edges of the wheel arches to avoid fouling. It looked pretty close when I bought it - hard to push down and a corner of the car and judge if the bodywork meets the tyre. I've raised the ride and narrowed the tyres since then.