Etoile Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Hello everyone - I've just joined the forum. I have inherited from my father a rather unusual special. It is (most of) a reproduction Lotus Type 14 Elite bodyshell mounted on a modified Spitfire Mk 1V chassis and mechanicals. I've attempted to attach a picture. He built it around 15 years ago, and named it "Etoile". I describe it as a Triumph-Hurn "Etoile" special - no attempt to pass it off as a real Lotus! - and Hurn being the body manufacturer. I am currently trying to get it back on the road after being laid up for a few years. I should maybe point out, before accusations of sacrilege, that the Elite bodyshell was a prototype unit from which the floor had been removed to repair a "real" Elite, and the donor Spitfire was terminally rusty in the body department...Anyway - I suspect this is well-trodden ground but can I ask about trunnions? I'm replacing them following failure at its first MoT test for some years. Now I have owned Reliant Scimitar GTEs before so have had a bit of exposure to the delights of Triumph front suspension.I've got the first trunnion off and the replacement on, with all the bushes/water guards correctly fitted and all nicely copper greased etc. I am merrily torqueing it up. The book says 61 Newton Metres but at that torqure I can barely turn the thing. Is that OK? I was expecting it to be reasonably free to turn so am tempted to back it off - it feels right at about 30Nm. Or should I stick with the book and expect it to free up a bit with use?The other question is that on Scimitars (which used TR6 front suspension) the received wisdom is that the trunnion bolt should turn with the trunnion. But I'm guessing on the Spitfire the trunnion top hat bushed are meant to turn around the bolt sleeve (with the bolt remaining stationary). Is that right?Many thanks!Nick HaighTonbridge, KentKLN 984K (ex Spit Mk IV 1971). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heraldcoupe Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 I really like that, however much of a purists nightmare it might be!Quality of plastic trunnion bushes is hugely variable. As designed, the tube should be clamped between the two wishbone arms, the plastic bushes are then able to pivot around this point. In practice, once assembled into the trunnion, the overall width of the plastic bushes with inner washers is greater than the length of the tube. This obviously can't work - the plastic bushes will be in compression before the tube is under any tension. I suspect this is the case with the components you've installed, check the relative dimensions with a set of accurate vernier calipers. Don't include the outer parts of the shields as these fit outside the ends of the tube.If my assumption is right, you will need to reduce the width of the assembled trunnion to fractionally less than that of the tube. What few people realise is that the splash guards weren't fitted until well into Herald production, they were a pretty unsuccessful attempt to exclude water from the bushes and prevent seizure. The factory introduced them in conjunction with an alteration in widthj of the plastic mouldings, maintaining the overall width of the bush assembly. With this in mind, I've been quite happy to omit one or both inner parts of the splash guards when it achieves a better overall width. Use of substantial quantities of copperslip (or your preferred anti-seize compound) is infinitely better at preventing seizure than the factory sanctioned washers.The overall width of the tube and outer washers should be a close match for that of the lower shock absorber bush. Use or omit the outer washers to achieve the best match in width.It's not ideal, these components really should be manufactured to match either of the original specifications more closely. But often they don't, this is a way to get around the problem.Cheers,Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTeesside Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Always go poly bush (superflex) if you can afford it at the time.I hate, hate, HATE the standard plastic replacements. They feel so cheap and snap if you so much as cough in their general direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heraldcoupe Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 The polyurethane bushes are softer than the nylon originals, they are a downgrade in the trunnion application, (IMNSHO),Cheers,Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phwoar Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Nick, not sure how far you want to go (or how much you want to spend) Canley's offer a trunnionless upright replacement. http://www.canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xhtml/product/catkit1.html&xsl=product.xsl Just do away with the whole problem in one fell wwoop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etoile Posted May 11, 2014 Author Share Posted May 11, 2014 Thanks everyone. Interesting point about the width of the bushes, Bill. I was quite careful to make sure the steel tube poked out of both ends of the trunnion + bush assembly, but maybe it wasn't enough (perhaps only a mm or two). One of my wishbone faces is also a little uneven due to me being a little cack-handed with the hacksaw cutting through the old bolt (ahem), so (despite filing it smooth as much as I dared), I wonder if the end washers are being distorted a bit and interfering with the inner washers. Anyway, for the moment I seem to be able to find a torque level that makes the whole thing tight enough to not have any play whilst still turning OK, so I'll stick with that for the moment. Just had a little test drive up and down our road and seems to be OK. I'll bear all of this in mind when I do the nearside this week. Joy...I do like the idea of the Canley balljoint (wish they'd had these when I ran Scimitars!) but the price is a bit out of my reach at the moment... Maybe something for the future. With two other demanding vehicles (see below) the Etoile is being recommissioned on a bit of a shoestring for the moment. But once I have the holy grail of an MoT and a bit more cash (and marital capital saved up) then who knows... Surprised to hear the poly bushes are a bit soft - on other cars I've always found them a bit on the hard side and tend to stick with OE bushes. One thing about the "Etoile" as an older car is that it rides quite nicely... With earplugs (yes that bit of the Elite experience is quite authentic!) it would be quite refined...Thanks again everyone.Nick HTonbridge, Kent'71 "Etoile" Triumph-Hurn special'00 Fiat Bravo 155 HGT'05 Saab 9-3 Aero V6 Turbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltddirk Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Nice car!Dirk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heraldcoupe Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 9311 wrote:Surprised to hear the poly bushes are a bit soft - on other cars I've always found them a bit on the hard side and tend to stick with OE bushes. I am only referring to the trunnion bushes in this respect, not the metal/rubber components used elsewhere in the susension. The original nylon bushes are pretty much rigid, polybushes aren't.Cheers,Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS211083 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Very nice car.Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncdude Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 That does look rather pretty. I expect it will create a lot more interest on the road than a Spitfire ever would too ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Very pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etoile Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 Thanks everyone for the warm words. The picture does flatter it a bit...it's a little unfinished around the edges so will be an ongoing project. But it is a tribute to my Dad's ingenuity and skills. Wish me luck for MoT take 2 on Monday! Current challenge is getting the nearside brake drum off. Large puller ordered off eBay....Must join the club too.Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisW Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Your brake drum? Is it just the drum or you trying to pull the whole hub? They often need a good bash with a nice meaty hammer as they seize in place. Are you sure the retaining screws for the drums have been removed? I really like the look of this by the way, completely different what you often see with body tub transplants. Love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Bancroft Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Rubber mallet, not a hammer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I found that a ground down chisel (so no sharp edges) and a club hammer get the drum off best. Strike it behind the ring of metal on the side of the drum.The daughters know what I mean when I say get me a blunt! (not a chisel) 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP72 Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 NickThe car looks fantastic! Good luck with it!Christian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferny Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Richard_B wrote:The daughters know what I mean when I say get me a blunt! (not a chisel) 8)Is that why the Stag took so long? ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etoile Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 Wheyhey! It's road legal again for the first time since 2003! ...though I'm already thinking the MoT is the end of the beginning rather than the beginning of the end (of the project). It's a swine when it's not fully warmed through - the hot draughts blowing through from the engine bay are stifling in this weather...clutch judder...pinking...ho hum.Still it does make quite a nice noise at full tilt (just the one silencer at the rear) and it is a bit of a hoot. Which is I guess what old cars are all about.Next jobs: fit the (hopefully) good used distributor I got off eBay with correct tacho drive; fit thermostat; get that Stromberg carb working properly; replace leaky header tank (rare-as-hen's-teeth Mk 1 Spit item), wire up overdrive. Longer term (windfall dependent): Hot 1500 engine?, Canley ball joints?, a few more genuine Elite bits (quarterlights?), air conditioning... :o ;)If I make it to any shows this summer, it's best viewed from about 20 yards away.....!Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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