Nick Jones Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 If the Rover system can be tweaked sufficiently to do a good job then I can see the attraction. Seems like a fair enough first step. You can always change ECU later if you think there is more to come. Relatively small job compared to the initial install.Either way it's got to be worth a go - Stag engine cries out for a decent induction system 🙂Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Thing is Nick- we both know what changing fuelling by a few % can do - it's all the difference between fluffy and growl.I'm now amazed that carbs work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Quoted from James You can make do with a cheap laptop, nothing special at all. In fact an old one is good because it'll have a serial port. If anyone is looking for a cheap laptop (with serial port) let me know.CheersColin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I never thought of this but I have just put an old Toshiba Libretto on fleabay - it's a tiny windows 95 pc with serial port. It's about the size of a video cassette, would be perfect for this sort of thing. I don't expect it to make more than 20 quid. It would fit in the glove box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Farmer Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Quoted from James Thing is Nick- we both know what changing fuelling by a few % can do - it's all the difference between fluffy and growl.I'm now amazed that carbs work Never heard it described like that before, but it is certainly trueNeil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Farmer Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Quoted from StagNL Neil, thank you very much for the clear descriptions of what those items do. Is a lot clearer now. A small question remains... The air flow meter spring tension: Is this a case of fitting a different spring or did you do something else?I also got a 'power resistor' box thingy. Seller didn't know what it did but I see someone else has it wired close to the air flow meter. Nick, I chose the Rover route a la Neil because it is possible and if he and others can do it, then so can I. Also the parts were relatively cheap considering prices here. Got to add that a mappable ECU such as offered by Megasquirt is an idea I have thought about and maybe will fit in future but right now I don't have a laptop to do anything with it. That alone adds to the cost - which I am trying, difficult it may be, to keep low.Julian Oddly enough I don't have a laptop either, and 12 years ago when I first fitted injection they were not cheap either Air flow meter spring tension- you need to lever the black plastic cover off the top of the air flow meter. It is stuck on with silicon sealant, or something similar. Inside there is a wheel about 5 cm in diameter. around its edge are little indentations and a little metal rod is hooked into one of these. To alter the spring tension, which governs how easily the air measuring flap opens, the metal rod is levered out and the wheel clicked round one notch at a time. The standard set up is too weak for the stag when warmed up, but perfect for cold start. I surprised the hell out of myself when it burst into life on the first turn of the key, but as it warms up it weakens off then dies. The answer is to rotate the wheel to keep the engine running as it warms up. If the idle mixture bleed screw on the air flow meter is screwed shut(count the turns) then best power mixture is the one which gives the fastest idle, then reopen the idle screw to get a better emissions reading. A spot of paint on the flow meter wheel at the standard setting will give you a reference so you don't forget which way you are going.The resistor pack drops the battery voltage to 3 volts which is all the injectors need. If you use a complete rover engine loom it can be unwrapped so the original wires and plugs will reach before re wrappingI have generally paid in the region of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Two door Toledo V8..... yummy! Might need to tweak the name a little...... I think "Torpedo" might be something like right 😀Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 There was a V8 toledo in some of th emags MANY years ago, probably 18-20?Anyway, it was a rover V8, and IIRC the guy had a stag engined TR5. Co-incidence??Anyway, the tuned V8 was mid mounted with a transaxle, R25 from a long lost memory. Roof was chopped off, but all excellently done. The guy was selling it too, minus the engine. May still be about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 There is a Stag engined Dolomite around, but the guy had to lengthen the front wings by 2". I think it actually made the Dolomite look better proportioned, IMHO 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Farmer Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 No coincidence, they were my cars. The mid engined Toledo was sold to a guy in Essex I think, but it is no longer on the DVLA database. The engine spent a few years in one of the Toledos I have now, followed by an injected Sprint engine, followed by an injected Stag engine. I sold the Rover engine but that is still going too, in a TR7 V8. The mag was triumph world in 1997, though the pics were taken a year earlier. I think the PI saloon that was also in the photo is still taxed too (AMB 191K). I sold that in 1998You dont need to extend the front of a Dolly or Toledo to get a stag engine in, though a Rover V8 needs the minimum of a hammer on the offside bulkhead, or cut the bulkhead back 3 inches like I did on the last one, but it makes footwell space very tight. Worked ok with a holley but the plenum of an injected motor comes too far back. A job for next year I thinkNeil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Only 1997!?!?Crikey, could have sworn it was soon after I got married. The first few years must have flown by Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew Posted October 5, 2013 Author Share Posted October 5, 2013 Time to bring this threaad back to life as I have started my Stag EFI project, and now have most of the electronics.I have opted for the new Microsquirt module, it doesn't have some of the advanced features of Megasquirt, but it arrives ready built in a water resistant housing and will do all that I need. Mappable Ignition, 8 injectors (not sequential) and needs EDIS, and its cost effective compared to Megaquirt.So I have the new Microsquirt, tuner studio and the following bits:-Edis 8 Module and 2 coil packs, GM Coolant, Air Temp Sensors and BAR Sensor. Techedge 2 and Wideband LambdaTrigger wheel and pickuprelaysRover recon Throttle BodyI have already powered up the Microsquirt and connected to Tuner Studio, so all the defaults are ready loaded.I spent today figuring out where the various parts would fit in and around the Stag, as I want to get the Microsquirt etc located so I can build the project up. Once the ECU and associated parts are fitted I intend to get the car running in the EDIS limp mode, which will have the trigger wheel and ignition sorted. But to save "lash ups" I intend to power the EDIS via the ECU relays, just leaving the io connections to the EDIS offCoil packs are going here on the drivers front inner wingwith the EDIS module close bywiring for this lot can follow the path back (with the power feed for the ECU) of the existing headlamp wiring, to the passenger footwell, it also leaves the pick up sensor run short and away from the other wiringluckily, above the main wiring loom grommit into the car, is a spare unused 1"3/4 grommit which will take the ECU wiring.the ECU and other parts are going to be mounted on an alloy plate behind the passenger dash shelf - this will fix under the existing relay panel mounts to the right of the relay panel, and I made up a cardboard template for thisWhich will give me a panel like thisthere's just room for the Techedge controller above the relays.Here's the throttle body I am using, its a recon MG one rated at 160hp so should be about rightI have removed the radiator hoses, and front pulley, so that I can get the trigger wheel mounted, and the pick up sensor.Hopefully ( work dependant) I'll have all this in place next week and see if it will run with EDISOnce thats done its work on the manifolds, I am still debating to have some cast, or simply to build them from alloy tube.Water circulation is easy, the manifolds (probably 2 separate ones - to ease V water sealing!) will have take offs from the rear of the manifold which I intend to feed to the radiator via thisIts a Range Rover P38 thermostat housing, and it has a bypass thermostat and pump bypass take off off so will suit the StagECU water temp sensor can go in the rear housing at the back of the engine's driverside head, IAT Sensor and Servo take off anywhere in the plenum (or plenums) - may be 2 joined with a flexible Y to the Throttle Body Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy thompson Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Nick Jones might be the better man to comment but shouldn't the IAT be away from the engine due to heat sink issues - on my 2100 it is just behind the air intake in front of the radiator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Depends what kind of IAT it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew Posted October 6, 2013 Author Share Posted October 6, 2013 Quoted from James Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... mikew Posted October 6, 2013 Author Share Posted October 6, 2013 Quoted from andy thompson Nick Jones might be the better man to comment but shouldn't the IAT be away from the engine due to heat sink issues - on my 2100 it is just behind the air intake in front of the radiator Its got a ceramic insulator between the body and the element, so heat soak should be Ok, its one of the items to be "played with" when I make up the manifolds, but certainly it should be somewhere near the throttle body Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... mikew Posted October 6, 2013 Author Share Posted October 6, 2013 I have also realised that I should run the wideband lambda sensor with the carbs fitted - it would be good to see what the mixture is at present - I suspect rich at most points judging by the exhaust, so I shall try and get that fitted next weekend too - Ive got the exhaust bung so easy to weld the adaptor on in one of the downpipes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Nick Jones Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 It is important to position the IAT away from sources of heat (as far as possible) otherwise it tends to register hotter than it should just after hot start and when stuck in traffic, which causes lean running and general crabbiness. At idle and when trickling along in traffic there isn't very much airflow inside the trunking/plenum so takes a while to cool the sensor to the correct reading.Most moderns seem to place them in the ducting (often plastic) between throttle body and air filter.Of mine:Vitesse has the IAT in the plenum, at the front just behind the TB. This suffers heat soak but clears quickly if some throttle is used as it's right in the airflow from the butterfly (on purpose).PI has IAT between TB and airfilter. This gets less heatsoak but takes longer to clear if it does as the air velocity where it's placed is lower.Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... stagdad Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Mike ,iI have a Wideband sensor fitted to my carb set up and its very useful ,I thought that bit of my efi was sorted until i realised the controler didnt have a datalog output for the ecu so i had to shell out for another one that did.My setup so far for my unfinished efi has Bosch 3 19lb injectors,MS2 ecu,LS2 COP's,twin throttle body off a omega.Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... stagdad Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 LS2 Truck coils and custom plenum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... 5 weeks later... mikew Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 Made some progress on this project got the trigger wheel mounted on the crank pulley. I had the rear of the pulley machined down (from the rough cast finish) to accept a boss to which the trigger wheel is fitted. The boss is located on the pulley via some grub screws, this allows for the trigger wheel to be located accurately for the correct timing. Once I have it set so the sensor is detecting the gap at 5 teeth ahead, and firing the edis module at 10 deg BTDC, I can remove the grub screws one by one and using a drill bit put a small indent in the crank nose so accurately locating the grubscrew and trigger wheel when replaced.Mounting on the rear of the pulley means that it doesn't have to be fastened to the rubber mounted damper part of the pulley, and it reduces the stand off height on the VR sensor, which can only be a good thing.I have finished the relay board / fuse box / microsquirt mounting and basic wiring tooAll parts secured with rivnuts for easy removal.So this needs mounting to the cars relay panel, with the trigger wheel on the engine, and the edis modules / coil packs on the inner wing, and after fabricating the VR mount, try and fire it up in EDIS limp mode and adjust the timing.I'll then start work on the manifold.I received this today too, its a swirl pot with inbuilt high pressure fuel pump - nice bit of kit from webcon, should simplify the fuel plumbing considerably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... 2 months later... rotoflex Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 That's a formidable-looking motor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... 1 month later... stagdad Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 How your one progressing Mike?. I have the HP fuel system finished and leak tested on my engine test bed now.Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... andy thompson Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Are those manifolds one offs or are they able to be reproduced? Would love a set Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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mikew Posted October 6, 2013 Author Share Posted October 6, 2013 Quoted from andy thompson Nick Jones might be the better man to comment but shouldn't the IAT be away from the engine due to heat sink issues - on my 2100 it is just behind the air intake in front of the radiator Its got a ceramic insulator between the body and the element, so heat soak should be Ok, its one of the items to be "played with" when I make up the manifolds, but certainly it should be somewhere near the throttle body Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew Posted October 6, 2013 Author Share Posted October 6, 2013 I have also realised that I should run the wideband lambda sensor with the carbs fitted - it would be good to see what the mixture is at present - I suspect rich at most points judging by the exhaust, so I shall try and get that fitted next weekend too - Ive got the exhaust bung so easy to weld the adaptor on in one of the downpipes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 It is important to position the IAT away from sources of heat (as far as possible) otherwise it tends to register hotter than it should just after hot start and when stuck in traffic, which causes lean running and general crabbiness. At idle and when trickling along in traffic there isn't very much airflow inside the trunking/plenum so takes a while to cool the sensor to the correct reading.Most moderns seem to place them in the ducting (often plastic) between throttle body and air filter.Of mine:Vitesse has the IAT in the plenum, at the front just behind the TB. This suffers heat soak but clears quickly if some throttle is used as it's right in the airflow from the butterfly (on purpose).PI has IAT between TB and airfilter. This gets less heatsoak but takes longer to clear if it does as the air velocity where it's placed is lower.Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stagdad Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Mike ,iI have a Wideband sensor fitted to my carb set up and its very useful ,I thought that bit of my efi was sorted until i realised the controler didnt have a datalog output for the ecu so i had to shell out for another one that did.My setup so far for my unfinished efi has Bosch 3 19lb injectors,MS2 ecu,LS2 COP's,twin throttle body off a omega.Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stagdad Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 LS2 Truck coils and custom plenum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 Made some progress on this project got the trigger wheel mounted on the crank pulley. I had the rear of the pulley machined down (from the rough cast finish) to accept a boss to which the trigger wheel is fitted. The boss is located on the pulley via some grub screws, this allows for the trigger wheel to be located accurately for the correct timing. Once I have it set so the sensor is detecting the gap at 5 teeth ahead, and firing the edis module at 10 deg BTDC, I can remove the grub screws one by one and using a drill bit put a small indent in the crank nose so accurately locating the grubscrew and trigger wheel when replaced.Mounting on the rear of the pulley means that it doesn't have to be fastened to the rubber mounted damper part of the pulley, and it reduces the stand off height on the VR sensor, which can only be a good thing.I have finished the relay board / fuse box / microsquirt mounting and basic wiring tooAll parts secured with rivnuts for easy removal.So this needs mounting to the cars relay panel, with the trigger wheel on the engine, and the edis modules / coil packs on the inner wing, and after fabricating the VR mount, try and fire it up in EDIS limp mode and adjust the timing.I'll then start work on the manifold.I received this today too, its a swirl pot with inbuilt high pressure fuel pump - nice bit of kit from webcon, should simplify the fuel plumbing considerably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotoflex Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 That's a formidable-looking motor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stagdad Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 How your one progressing Mike?. I have the HP fuel system finished and leak tested on my engine test bed now.Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy thompson Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Are those manifolds one offs or are they able to be reproduced? Would love a set Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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