Brake Servo

[DougBGT6]

My Girling servo is kaput, in fact leaking brake fluid into the vacuum line. The service kit is very expensive and a new replacement, although a little more, seems a better option. People tell me the Lockheed servo is superior and in fact, on Canley's, the Girling servo service kit page, takes you to their replacement Lockheed kit.

Canley's Lockheed kit is £159.50, Rimmers seem to have the same thing for £102 (Unusually cheaper!) does anybody know of any other suppliers?

[Martins Stag]

Try looking for a remote servo for a Mini (Rover) I beleive they are very similar but may require soem tweeking.

Martin

[nang]

Can you not get a repair kit these days ? Used to be available. Check on ebay.
Tony.

[Nick Moore]

I read somewhere that Lockheed servos tend to have a jerky action - push, push a bit harder, and then bam! In comes the servo! That certainly matched my experience with a Lockheed on my Herald. I rekitted two separate servos and they both had the same off-on character. They were replaced with a Bendix 'Hydromaster' servo, which works perfectly.

My GT6 has a brand new VH44.

[stevegt6]

I have fitted one from canleys - bought some 5 or 6 years ago (circa £100), so not sure if still the same.

Easy fitting (GT6 mk3), looks nice, and I have confidence in the brakes - Not noticed any 'sudden' servo action, all very 'normal'. Running stock front calipers with mintex pads and stock rear.

Obviously not like modern cars where you can blow on the brake pedal and see some reaction.

Might look into 4-pot and vented upgrade - some weight loss and more stopping power. Cant argue with that.

[DougBGT6]

Just discovered I paid off my credit card 3 weeks ago and again last week! Paid it twice.  :B  Pillock! But this does mean a new servo can be mine!  8)

[cook1e]

I have the Lockheed one on mine, having replaced the original Girling powerstop which started eating brake fluid . The brakes were still working fine but the brake fluid kept needing a top up and exhaust was smokey with white smoke and the car was pinking badly!

At the time, Lockheed one was £150 as a kit from Moss Europe who had it available off the shelf. To have my Powerstop reconditioned wss £250 with a 6 week leadtime back then so it was a no brainer to swap to Lockheed.

I had to turn the servo through 180 degrees to be able mount it in the same place as the powerstop but no big deal. Pictures below of before and after below.

It works great, no jerky action and the boost level is higher at 1.9:1 rather than the powerstop 1.5:1. There were some Lockheed kits for sale at Stoneleigh last week advertised as suitable for a GT6 with an even higher ratio, 2.3:1 I think? Unfortunatly I cant remember who was selling them!

Try all the normall suppliers, Paddocks, Manners Parts 4 etc to get the best deal, although Rimmers does sound very cheap for one at £102. I assume it's on a special offer.

[Pete Lewis]

doug i have a spare  universal  sold by everone aftermarket one if you get stuck ..needs a home

Pete

[DougBGT6]

Pete, Thanks for the offer very good of you, unfortunately I've already bitten Rimmers hand off and ordered one for £102.  :(

Andy, thanks for the pics. It wasn't on special, I suspect they are getting rid of them. A year ago they did both Girling and Lockhead new replacements plus repair kits for both, now they only do a complete Lockheed and probably for not much longer.

[JohnD]

All this enthusiasm for fitting brake servos - you would think that Triumpheros were all weak in the knees!

But why isn't there as much for fitting split brake systems?
Much, MUCH greater safety factor than a servo, just as much of a challenge to fit, and Triumph supplies the parts!
All you need is the tandem master cylinder and the balance valve (It has another name, can't recall) that light up the warning if one part does go down.

I fitted one to Silverback, and split it front/rear, so I could fit a brake pressure valve to the rear.
It need some surgery to the bulkhead though.  See pic.

John

[Paudman]

JohnD wrote:

All this enthusiasm for fitting brake servos -

But why isn't there as much for fitting split brake systems?

It need some surgery to the bulkhead though.

John

Possibly the last line explains the lack of enthusiasm?
Just keep your standard brake system well maintained; it wouldn’t have been fitted to the cars in the first place had it been in any way dangerous.

[Pete Lewis]

John pdwa   pressure differential warning alarm,, on most spit 1500 and younger cars with split line


Split line has to be safer over single line
when it all goes leaky you have some braking rather than no braking
I was surprised to see on my recently accquired 2000 that triumph deleted split line and reverted to
single on my 74 mk2    .....cost saving ???  Or what

Servo does reduce the application time as pressure build is more rapid, than standing on the pedal

brakes in good operational condition with correct pad materials is a basic good start
pete

[DougBGT6]

JohnD, my servo hasn't worked for 20 years, I wasn't bothered but it is now proving a liability leaking brake fluid into the vacuum line. My immediate reaction was to remove it, however I am reliably informed that removing the servo is an MOT fail. This even if the servo was an extra to the original spec. Coincidently confirmed this at the garage this afternoon picking up my daughter's Fiesta.  So, I have to have a servo want it or not.

[RobPearce]

I can't see how removing a non-original part can be an MOT failure - it would require the tester to KNOW the history!
My GT6 does not have a servo. It passes the MOT.

[Clive]

Sounds like tosh to me.
take it off, take the WSM with you to the MoT and show them they were not fitted from the factory (or were an option)
seems many MoT peeps just do not understand old cars any more.

[Tim Bancroft]

I took my servo off my car before the last MOT, no problem from my Tester. He has tested the car for years and knows the car, no problem.

[DougBGT6]

Tosh?     :-/  

MOT testing manual section 3.6 Braking Systems and Additional Braking Devices Method of Inspection. Servos and Master Cylinders  

Check servos for a. Presence  
Reason for rejection a. Missing when fitted as standard.

Fitted as standard includes factory optional extras.

And yes I can tell if there's been a servo fitted and removed from the bulkhead and if your unlucky so can the MOT man. My MOT man was a Triumph apprentice and knows my car inside out. Unfortunately.

[thescrapman]

But was yours factory fitted? Or was it Dealer fitted? Or was it retro-fitted by a previous owner.

I think it must have been one of the last 2. Unless of course the MOT guy has a copy of teh build record and can prove it was there when it left the factory.

Cheers

[Casper]

http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_360.htm

Manual 3.6 C 1 a:

A servo:
a.
missing when fitted as standard

(My emphasis)


Beware 'experts'.
C.

[DougBGT6]

Read what I rit

"Fitted as standard includes factory optional extras" Doesn't matter if it was fitted at the factory or the dealer, the car was ordered with a servo.

As to "experts" are you being rude about me, or my MOT man? I would think he's an expert, a Triumph apprenticeship and 40 years experience. He say he would fail my car if the servo is no more. What else can I say?

[Tim Bancroft]

Reckon your MOT tester is a bit of a stickler. Mine, who tests all my cars and has a good reputation for both honesty and fairness in the area I live, did not have a problem when he tested my car before Xmas.

So not 'Tosh' as I am only reporting what happened.

[DougBGT6]

Tim, I to am only reporting what happened. I don't know why people get so aerated around here.

[Casper]

I don't want to raise the temperature, and I'm sorry I had missed what you had written.  You are quoting chapter and verse, but the manual says nothing about including factory options.
Nor does any other document I can find.
I'm sorry your tester is a stickler.  I suppose what he says goes.

C.

[Clive]

I used the tosh word!

My experience of "ex triumph mechanics" has been variable, some good, one was useless and couldn't get my herald on his towtruck when it snapped a vertical link. The 20 year old who came along next had no issues at all. Others have proved to have forgotten what they once (apparently) knew.

MoT testers do not like to be put right. It is fine arguing with them and pointing out the actual facts from the manual, but by that point it is too late, the relationship is gone.

Have you got a heritage certificate? if so it should say if it was factory fitted with a servo. That is evidence that he cannot disregard. Though he may decide that he still knows better.

Anyway, all moot. If you want to keep your servo, do so. If you don't easy solution is find another MoT man.

Where did the "Fitted as standard includes factory optional extras." bit come from, It is not in that mot manual section?

[JohnD]

Doug,
"Standard" does not include "Accesories and Special Orders".
If it helps, on a GT6, a servo was an "A&SO" until Mk3 KE20,000, I learn from John Thomason's book, while there is no mention of a servo as standard OR as "A&SO" in any mark of Spitfire.

Find another MoT tester, for goodness sake!
Compare 3.6.1, reasons for failure, "A servo: a. missing when fitted as standard"
with the rest of the reasons
b. vacuum pipe deteriorated, kinked, split, collapsed or excessively chafed
c.leaking.
2.Adjustment indicating rod shows brake adjustment is necessary.
3.Deliberate modification which significantly reduces the original strength, excessive corrosion, severe distortion, a fracture or an inadequate repair of a load bearing member or its supporting structure or supporting panelling within 30cm of the master cylinder/servo mounting, that is, within a ‘prescribed area’, see Appendix C.

All serious faults with the brake system, when an absent servo is not a fault.
The guy is either winding you up, or looking for work and profit.

Go elsewhere.
John

PS Heard of a Googlewhack?    It's typing something in and getting ONE hit.  One, in the whole of the Googleverse.  Admittedly easier with several words, but "Fitted as standard includes factory optional extras" is a Googlewhack.   The only time those words have appeared on the 'Net, as far as Google knows (and Google knows a LOT) is right here on Triumph Torque, on this thread and specifically in the Clive's post above.  Until I repeated it.   J.