Roadside Fixes

[yorkshire_spam]

There's been a lot of talk about what faults/issues caused retirements on this year's run. Alternators seemed a very popular topic! Previous stats (which I think Martin Raider Randle used to maintain) suggested that wheel bearings, water pumps, fuel pumps were common causes of retirement on small chassis cars. But it got me thinking that there's another way of looking at this - what did you fix at the roadside that would have taken you out of the event if you hadn't had the parts/tools to tackle it?

Car: Spitfire 1500

Problem #1: Ignition failure

Car just died on the highland roads on Saturday morning. Took the lid off a SU float chamber and plenty of fuel that - so not that. Took a spark plug out and checked for spark under cranking - nothing.
Pulled the electronic ignition unit and swapped to a spare and the car fired back up.
Tools Used: Spark plug spanner, flat bladed screwdriver, cross head screwdriver
Parts Used: Spare ignition module

Problem #2: Wiper failure

Wipers stopped mid-sweep on the M6 southbound on Saturday night. Even with rain-x we weren't going any further without fixing it.
Co-driver noticed that washer motor had also stopped working, checking the wiring diagram suggested the fuse. I jumped a piece of spare wire onto the motor terminal from the battery and the wipers completed their sweep, double checked with a multimeter - no voltage at the motor.
Unfortunately my custom fuse box isn't labelled! So at this point we started pulling fuses and testing continuity - found the dead one and replaced. All good and back on the road.
Tools Used: Multimeter, long nose pliers (pulling/replacing fuses with my fat fingers), jumper wire.
Parts Used: 1xblade fuse.

Without the parts/tools to repair either of those faults could have left us out of the run. 

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by yorkshire_spam

[JohnD]

Spam,

What a useful post!   This is the "Reliability Run" after all, commemorating (allegedly) ST's own testing route.    So documenting and analysing failures and their solutions is valuable.  So, I hope, will comments from us armchair and past participants.     On your incidents:

1/ Bad luck, it's almost impossible to check an electronic component without specialist kit!   And well done, for having a spare!     A contact breaker set would be a cheap, small and light alternative.

2/ A blown fuse makes me nervous - why has it blown?   I suppose fuses age and go eventually, perhaps fit new ones for a 'reliability run'?     And labelling!   I have fitted an eight way fuse box, and made a small sticker to indicate which is which.   That is stuck to the inside of the windscreen where I can read it from the engine bay, while the sticker stays warm and dry.

Anyone else prepared to confess?

John

 

[yorkshire_spam]

7 minutes ago, JohnD said:

2/ A blown fuse makes me nervous - why has it blown? 

Hi John! I spec'd the circuit originally and was very cautious on the value of the fuse - possibly a little too low. At this point in the run the wipers had been running for almost 24 hours only being switched off at the fuel and breakfast stops. It only blew once so I put it down as "one of those things", no signs of shorts or overloads. Maybe the window went dry and it marginally increased the load that sweep? I'll keep an eye on it and probably investigate deeper now I'm home!

  

6 minutes ago, JohnD said:

A contact breaker set would be a cheap, small and light alternative.

The quality of the new points replacement electronic units seems to be very poor. So I carry 1x spare electronic unit and 1x "quality" points set (Dizzy Doctor) - small, easy to swap and a sensible "just in case" in my book.

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by yorkshire_spam

[Steve28]

In 2016 we had a toughened windscreen so we took a spare laminated one with a crack down it on the back seat in a bin bag and although we didn't need to use it in the run we had to use it on the way back home  20 ish minutes and back in the road  .

[Jason]

Our pump was a Bosch 044 type made by Sytec.

Our issues were weird, the pump was stone cold when we had our first issue near Stonehenge. This was effectively a new pump, 2 years on the shelf and on the car for about 300 miles. It was noisy from first fitting and Just before it died it made more noise, we noticed it for the first time just before it died. There was power to the pump so we deduced it had died and/or was now no good.

We had a new spare from my Vitesse which was identical (same make and model number), bought about 9 months ago. We swapped it out and all was well. This pump was quiet. Off we sped onto the 303 dual, and onto the fast bit.

Nice little run of about 5 miles then it died again. We were not in a safe place, we were losing the light and the traffic was fast and close. We quickly figured out it was a wiring issue and not the pump (spare relay was already wired in, we changed to that, still dead so it was wiring.) We made up a hot lead straight from the battery to the pump, that sorted us right out and that's how we are ran to the finish. We added an inline switch the next morning to make it a tad safer.

So, in summary, although final diagnosis will be down to Tim in the comfort of a garage, I don't think it was an issue to do with PI or fuel or pump or temperature, I think it is a wiring fault. Bearing in mind it's the original loom and we'd just subjected it to biblical rain, it could be shorting out somewhere.

[PeteStupps]

Good topic Sam. And good work solving your problems on the run.

My trusty Spitfire unexpectedly conked out on a single-carriageway section of the A303. Sudden and total engine death, but we managed to roll onto the verge. I was awake enough to realise it must be an ignition fault and checked for a spark at the points - there was none. 

Turned out the wire from coil to points had fatigued inside the insulation and was going high-resistance or open circuit when wiggled. There was enough slack to cut off the fatigued part and bodge together a crimp terminal for the Delco dissy points - although my first attempt earthed out on the distributor body after about 20 yards so we had a bit more fun getting off the road and into safety again. 

Tools used: multimeter, side-cutters, pliers, crimping tool (not really necessary but had one in the boot)

Parts used: one ring crimp terminal and a half-inch of heatshrink borrowed off Alex Pedley - thanks Alex! 

Was quite satisfying as it was a very quick diagnosis, and the fix got us the remaining 110 miles back to Knebworth. And I finally discovered what had been causing the low-rpm misfire!

[Mike North]

Excellent topic, everyday a school day..............

[Jos]

Team Arnie (car 137) had the weld on the bonnet hinge break after about 20miles from the start. A steady drive up to Wetherby and tank tape held it down (I had checked the hinge nuts before the event - all tight but hadn't checked the 40+yr old welds!). Had to redo the tape several times due to wet getting under the tape.

Needed - Tank (gaffer) tape.

Also tail light at Gledrid

Needed - spare bulb

[JohnD]

23 hours ago, Steve28 said:

In 2016 we had a toughened windscreen so we took a spare laminated one with a crack down it on the back seat in a bin bag and although we didn't need to use it in the run we had to use it on the way back home  20 ish minutes and back in the road  .

You took - GASP! - a whole windscreen with you as a spare?   I've heard of other bulky and heavy items carried, but this wins the prize!   When fold-up "Emergency Windscreens" can be carried in a cardboard tube? 

All the other reported faults and fixes - 

[cook1e]

We had a problem with the car intermittently conking out and traced it to a dodgy connection in the ignition switch in the run position.

I got around this by running a permanent 12v hotwire to the ballast resistor from a 12v feed on the relay used for my air horns, I did prepare properly as I had some cable, crimp connectors and a crimp tool in my tools and spares carried on the run. Worked a treat, but the car did continue running after the key was removed so we had to open the bonnet and disconnect the hotwire to stop it when parked!

Green wire in the pics is the hotwire.

[Shynsy]

Ours was very minor.  Near the end of the run our stag seemed sluggish to start. In fact it would not start at all when we ran the starter but would instead start when the key was moved back to the ignition position and the inertia of the engine rotating allowed the car to start.  After a bit if head scratching we diagnosed a failing battery which meant the volts dropped to low when the starter was running for the electronic ignition to fire. Once the starter was de-energised the volts popped back up and the ignition fired and the car started..

We also noticed this was a lot worse with lights, wipers etc on. Stressing the battery further. So from bude starting was like that scene from apollo 13. Everything drawing current was turned off, even phone chargers and then wang the starter and hope. 
 

annoyingly i had a new battery ready to fit back in the garage

on a previous run we were saved from a broken throttle cable 20 miles from home by a modified bike brake cable  i always carry one..

 

tim

[Tim Bancroft]

Tim,

Are you sure the alternator is good? Have you put a meter across the battery terminals to check its charging?

[andy5]

Hi All

Team 66 we had a failing Alternator within 10 Miles of Skaich, filled up with fuel then lifted the bonnet to see the belt had come off. On inspection I found the bolt securing the alternator had sheared off, we tried every way to change the fixing but all failed we pushed on with the belt just making 11v and the belt being re-fitted every few miles. We made it to Helmsdale when we decieded to call it a day [or night], I wedged some foam that was wrapped around a spare alternator and tried to get some purchase on the alternator belt. This lasted about 1/2 mile when the engine stopped [no power], we had a "power charger"and started the car, then with zip ties made a chain to the suspension turret, this got us to Inverness for breakfast. We added a second chain of zip ties and carefully made our way back to Somerset, we managed to avoid most of the queues and were dry by the time we got home just before midnight. 

Tools used ; Zip ties and a chunk of Foam.

 

[JohnD]

More Ace cures!    I love the Apollo 13 comparison!   And that web of zip ties, however ineffective, is most ingenious!

All done with minimal, small, light items from the 'repair box'.  Excellent!   

Andy5, I would have searched  - the car, or my memory of it! - for another bolt that it would be safe to rob and secure the alternator.   I don't presume to tell you which, and anyway, I don't know the saloons, but they must use as many 5/16" bolts as the earlier Triumphs!

John

[andy5]

John

We still had the Bolt as it was lodged in the bracket [as the bracket arm had dropped], but since it had sheared just inside the threaded section of the head we could not get it out. The zip tie chain did last the 575 miles to get us home though. The sound of the screaming alternator could not be heard above 30mph - think the bearings are now shot as it was being pulled at a different angle. 

[cook1e]

2 hours ago, andy5 said:

Hi All

Team 66 we had a failing Alternator within 10 Miles of Skaich, filled up with fuel then lifted the bonnet to see the belt had come off. On inspection I found the bolt securing the alternator had sheared off, we tried every way to change the fixing but all failed we pushed on with the belt just making 11v and the belt being re-fitted every few miles. We made it to Helmsdale when we decieded to call it a day [or night], I wedged some foam that was wrapped around a spare alternator and tried to get some purchase on the alternator belt. This lasted about 1/2 mile when the engine stopped [no power], we had a "power charger"and started the car, then with zip ties made a chain to the suspension turret, this got us to Inverness for breakfast. We added a second chain of zip ties and carefully made our way back to Somerset, we managed to avoid most of the queues and were dry by the time we got home just before midnight. 

Tools used ; Zip ties and a chunk of Foam.

 

Having had to result to using zip ties on Howard's TR7 on the 10CR a few years back when we lost the long alternator bolt, I now carry a length of studding in my spares stash on the long runs, this can be cut to length with a junior hacksaw and used to replace any long bolts. It can also be used as a get you home bodge even if the bolts is a larger diameter by using big washers ate either end!

 

[GT64fun]

4 hours ago, cook1e said:

my spares stash on the long runs

Andy

Your luggage area was almost full of spares and tools. No evidence of luggage or food!

I think in 2016/18 we got the balance about right and luckily didn't have to use any.

Ian

Edited October 12, 2023 by GT64fun

[Shynsy]

4 hours ago, Tim Bancroft said:

Tim,

Are you sure the alternator is good? Have you put a meter across the battery terminals to check its charging?

Hi Tim, seems to be working ok. Getting up to 14.2V out of the alternator..

tim

[AndyA]

On 11/10/2023 at 10:35, JohnD said:

A blown fuse makes me nervous - why has it blown?   I suppose fuses age and go eventually, perhaps fit new ones for a 'reliability run'? 

Team 130 had our first 35A fuse go all brown and sulky on the way up from Lands End. About 50 miles later, its replacement followed suit. Both were new, so I'm thinking maybe a duff batch. Wipers, indicators, fuel and temperature gauge were all thoroughly disinterested in life without it.

Oh, and for some reason the TR6's fuel cut off inertia switch triggered at a fuel stop on our way home after the event. Of course, it waited until we'd told everyone about the run and how good the car had been to us. 🙂  

[iani]

Team 13 (it got wearing hearing all the comments about how unlucky that was, proved correct unfortunately)

Our first issue was with the wipers, the Scottish weather did its worst and the wiper rack snapped at the motor fitting end, annoyingly we would both occasionally hit the wiper switch by accident, this left the wipers stuck upright, resolved by disconnecting the plug.

We had two injectors decide to pack up, the first resolved by bleeding, the second didn't respond to that so we swapped it for a spare, no drama there.

Then the fun began, the car cut out on Dartmoor, driving along fine then nothing, no coughing, no rough running, just dead. We checked the ignition circuit, all seemed well, swapped out coil & rotor arm in case, off we went, then it happened again. We thought the alternator felt a bit warm, output voltage was fine though, we swapped it out for a new unit, in turn that ran just as hot, then the car failed again on the A303, again, no warning, motoring along then it stopped.

We had swapped the pump out for a replacement unit, I did notice the pressure was low at idle however, I will be checking for evidence of fuel contamination blocking the filters when I get the car home from the RAC, hopefully this weekend. Frenchie & I were very disappointed not to make the finish with only 125 miles to go, neither of us fancied breaking down on the M25 though, the right call I think.

Assistants used: Dave & Ilka, Nigel Gair

Tools used: Frenchie's teeth (I now know good way to test injector hoses for pulse), spanners, wire strippers (Nigel's), pliers, screwdrivers

Edited October 12, 2023 by iani

[JohnD]

AndyA, put an ammeter across the fuse and see what current it's taking? If it's near the rating then you might need a higher current fuse, or better to split the circuit and spread the load across two fuses.    This site says that you should ensure that " the load current does not exceed 70% of the rated current"!   Fuse characteristics | Fuse outline | Automotive Fuses｜PEC (pecj.co.jp)

My multimeter won't measure above 10A, but you may have a better one.

Well done, Team 139 and iani!   For common sense fixes, and respect for having a spare alternator!  But still, I wonder about the range, size and weight of the comprehensive set of spares that includes an alternator!  Normally a reliable ancillary, wouldn't a testing it before you go be a better way?   I'm sure that when ST did the run in the day (if they really did!)  they would test it beforehand!

John

 

[PeteStupps]

5 hours ago, JohnD said:

AndyA, put an ammeter across the fuse and see what current it's taking?

Pedantic Pete here: you would of course have to put your meter in series with the fuse, rather than across it, to measure the current 🙃

5 hours ago, JohnD said:

But still, I wonder about the range, size and weight of the comprehensive set of spares that includes an alternator!

Come on John, it's a 48hr endurance event! And an alternator takes up less space than a spare windscreen, as mentioned elsewhere... 

This year's run was the first of my 3 attempts which didn't result in a dead dynamo. I've always carried a spare in the boot since it failed on a holiday in Wales in 2017. I'm still not going to convert to an alternator though - too stubborn and have built up a collection of dynamos now. 

[AlanChatterton]

Team 15 FRanK in a 2.5PI. 
 

Alternator died just outside Bude, no spare. Perhaps it’s a lesson to carry a spare?

Luckily, Keith and Matt George had a spare with them that they very kindly lent us and we fitted it at the Bude stop and finished with no further issues. 
We also had an oil burning problem which has clearly been there before the run but I hadn’t spotted. My Monmouth we had used the gallon of oil I’d brought with us. We managed to beg and borrow enough from everyone else to be able to finish. Engine under investigation but we are thinking we have a ring problem on number 4. Plug fouled up and caused a misfire which was cured by a plug change in number 4. 
Many thanks to Keith and Matt and everyone at Monmouth who donated oil. 
What a fantastic event and bunch of people the RBRR is. Number 13 for me and number 14 in the planning stages already. 

[Rutty]

Team 96 running Pete Jackson’s brown 2.5 estate know as Poo.

10 days before the event Pete had to drop everything and fly back to New Zealand for a family emergency( He made it in time) I was sent a message saying the carbs are in bits on the workbench and a list of parts needed to repair them. Pete’s son Michael stepped into Pete’s place and we spent the Saturday before the event along with Pete Sargent rebuilding the carbs and getting Poo running. I then discovered various problems with the headlights due to corroded connections which I only resolved the two days before the RBRR.

On the run we only suffered one true bonnet up brake down, as we came through Jedburgh Poo started misfiring after a couple of miles it was showing no sign of clearing so we turned around and headed back to Jedburgh to the light and dryness of the shell garage canopy. It was quickly diagnosed as a damp Dissy cap not surprising with all the rain and floods we had driven through. A spray with WD40 and we where on our way again. 
The next problem was a rattling gear stick, the advantage of an estate is you can reach the tools from the back seat, a suitable spanner was found and it was tightened up between gear changes.

The final problem started on the A303 where the OD started slipping, we found by slowing down and driving less hard through the roundabouts the slipping problem cleared. We are putting this down to an gearbox oil leak Poo developed on the run and low oil level in the gearbox but we made it to the finish and then to my home.

We where very lucky or fool hardy as we didn’t actually have any breakdown cover as Pete has a driver policy and had to be in the car not on the other side of the world.

Finally two days later on the 40 mile trip from mine back to Pete’s 3 miles from Pete’s home Poo cutout, after being left a short while Poo restarted and 800m later cut out again. Poo continued to do this all the way back to Pete’s. We suspect the electronic Dissy module, Poo awaits Pete’s return from New Zealand to fix him.

Mark Rutter

 

[mole42]

21 hours ago, JohnD said:

For common sense fixes, and respect for having a spare alternator!  But still, I wonder about the range, size and weight of the comprehensive set of spares that includes an alternator! 

Nuala's and my DNF in 2021 was due to a failed rear wheel bearing in a new hub on the Stag. Even if we'd carried a spare rear hub, I don't think I'd have wished to change it at midnight at Gledrid. There are limits!