Dipped in green glass

[Nick Moore]

Can anyone suggest a more difficult small Triumph job than fitting a diff? The wee nuts under the exhaust manifold come a close second, but that diff, that diff. Bastards Inc worked overtime the day that design was signed off.

I installed my Subaru 3.54 diff today, and the tool I used most must have been the swear jar. A trolley jack, winch, various bits of wood and a meaningful hammer also played their parts. If I had had a pit and transmission jack it would have been merely tricky. but as I write this my arms are still feeling weak and various other aches require soothing with Scotch. Mmmmm, Port Charlotte to be precise

Fitting the Subie conversion doesn't make the job any easier. It fits in place just like the original, but the diff is heavier and therefore even more of a bastard to lift / twist / heave into position. But the wee bugger is in place and connected to the wheels, which is a big step forward. Tomorrow I'll finish running the handbrake cable, which should be a walk in the park in comparison.

[yorkshire_spam]

That's one sexy diff.

[RedRooster]

Nice work Nick, i enjoy reading about your progress, keep the posts coming.
RR

[Nick Moore]

Something I've found working away for two weeks at a time is that I'll get excited planning what I can do to the GT6 in my week back home, but it doesn't always go according to plan. Because I've tried to be clever and modify so much, a lot of bits don't simply bolt together. Parts have to be put together half a dozen times before they work properly, and that week in the garage can be frustratingly slow.

Chapter 1: The diff
I've finally fitted my 3.54 non-LSD Subaru diff. That's the longest R160 ratio, and will be fine for Queensland's highly policed speed limits of 100 or 110 km/h. There must be a difference in the size of the carriers within the diff, because although it fitted my 3.7 diff, the 3.54's carrier's bolts hit the inside of the alloy plate when it was first assembled. Glad I found that before it was fitted in the car! The offending alloy was filed off and it turns freely. It took the best part of a day to get the diff under and up into the car, but it's in, thank f%#k.

Chapter 2: The handbrake
Another day was spent threading the handbrake cable through the guides. If I ever do this again, I'll fit the cable first! With the diff in place, it's very difficult to pull the cable through and around corners. Remember, the R160 diff is longer than the original - for instance, the lever mechanism connecting the two cables is above the nose and hidden. One of the four big bolts holding the front plate to the nose turned out to foul the lever mechanism, but the bolt was easily shortened. The handbrake installation's not finished, as the left hand cable guide has been bent somehow, probably while the body was off the chassis, and it's almost impossible to straighten the guide while lying on the garage floor with the belly of the car two inches from my nose with very little visibility or access for big hands and tools. I'm thinking of hiring a concrete cutter and building a garage pit before crawling under the car again. If anyone asks I'll say it's a wine cellar.

Chapter 3: CV confuzzlement
With the diff in place, the CV conversion could be bolted up to the diff's adapters. In theory anyway. I've used Nick Jones' conversion, which is designed for the Triumph diff, and made up some adapters to connect the inner CVs to the Subaru diff. It's the first time these components have been asked to work together. I found that when the wheels are on full droop, the inner CVs, which take all the plunge, are fully compressed. I have a pair of Herald shockies fitted to the chassis top mount, which should be the right length, but as she sits, it's still the inner CVs limiting downwards suspension travel, not the shockies. I've tried to replicate the original diff and suspension geometry, which Nick's kit is designed to fit, but after a day of trying to persuade the rear end to go together, I decided to leave it for another day. I'd had enough, was hot and dirty and very grumpy. My garage week wasn't living up to expectation.

Chapter 4: The clutch
When things really seem to be fighting back, it's often better to walk away and do something else, so I jumped on my bike and picked up the modified clutch thrust bearing carrier. The bearing has been moved 8mm forward with a spacer - although it looks like it's hanging off the front of the carrier, it's well located and feels robust. And, after tweaking the position of the pivot ball with a washer, it sits perfectly. The arm will be able to move about 20mm before hitting the bellhousing, which is more than it needs to disengage the clutch. So (pending tests once it's in the car) I hereby declare the clutch saga finished, and the power train ready for a trial fitting. Which will probably be next break.

PS Yes, I know HT lead #6 is very tight. I think I measured it wrong, or Magnecor couldn't read my handwriting. Getting a longer one made won't break the bank.
PPS Rear shock absorbers. It looks like Koni aren't making GT6 rear shocks any more, although Spax and Gaz still are. Rimmers do still stock the conversion kits with the chassis extensions. If they properly control the suspension droop, I'll probably take that option.

[junkuser]

Sorry to hear of the frustrations Nick but you are progressing.  Great to see!

She'll be good when finished.

Mal.

[Phwoar]

I'm sure you tried swapping the leads around but just from the picture it looks like swapping the 5 lead into the 6, the 5 for the 1 and 1 for 5 might fit a little better.

[Nick Jones]

Some days you are the dog, some days the lamp post.........

Dunno what's up with the CVs and shaft length.  Ought to work if the distance across the flanges is the same as a Triumph one.  Are both sides the same or could the diff be slightly offset?  There isn't much spare travel to play with......

Suspension travel is just possibly an issue as there is much more plunge happening at the ends of travel.  I run standard old stock Armstrong dampers on the rear of the Vitesse with chassis extensions (hangover from roto days) and they stop things just short of the driveshafts touching the chassis.  MGF and R100 auto shafts are shorter but probably by too much! Shout if there is anything I can help with.

Is there a part number on that release bearing?  Looks like the one I've been looking for for a while.

Cheers

Nick

[Tim Bancroft]

Nick,

As another current thread on here. Can you not use Spit/herald length shockers and use the chassis top mount?

Your car is going to be exceptional when finished, the quality of the build is first rate. When things get to much have a break etc etc.

I am just gutted that I will not be able to see her i the flesh.

Keep going!

[Nick Moore]

Thanks for the words of encouragement, Tim. My car's far from perfect though - there are a few paint chips from the rebuild that will need touching up later. Like any restorer, I see all the flaws! And I'd love to see your car next time I'm in the UK - 27 years ownership (or more now?) must be some sort of record. By the time mine's been on the road that long, I'll be 70  

I'll order a standard Herald-length set of shockies, and some bushes for the lower bush eyes. An old set of Herald Gabriel shocks seem to have the right extended length. But for now, I took your advice and walked away from the back end. The drive shafts were disconnected again so that the rear suspension could be reassembled easily. Once the wheels were on, she was turned around to point nose uphill, so I could do this:

[Mark Hammond]

27 years ownership isn't a record on here, I've personally owned mine since 1980 prior to that my mother owned it for 10 years and from new until 1970 my grandfather owned it.  The only time the car was ever sold was when it was new back in 1965.

Mark

[thescrapman]

Quite a few people on here have cars that have been in their families from new.

Sadly not me though.

Cheers

[Tim Bancroft]

Quite a few people in CT have owned cars for a long time:

Derek Pollock: TR4: 51(?) years

Dave Langrick: Spitfire mk4: 31 years

Nigel Gair: 2000 mk2 Saloon: 28 (?) years

Dave Pearson: TR5: 35 (?) years

Tim Hunt: TR4A: 40 (?) years

Mike Bishop: 1300: 35 (?) years

I have had my GT6 30 years.

Nick,

The day you fire the GT6 up will be one of the best, looking forward to hearing that it runs sweetly and lovely.

Keep going!

[Nick Moore]

OK, maybe 30 years is a record for Royal Blue Mk2 GT6s?

Fire-up is a way off yet. First I need to finish the wiring - not hard - then I need my extractors, which were last seen in the boot of a Jag in France. Once they're in place I'll be able to fabricate an EFI inlet manifold. In the meantime I'm still making the engine noises the old fashioned way 😉

Back to the coalfields tomorrow. It's been a productive week.

[Tim Bancroft]

Could be sometime, but well worth the wait eh!

Good luck with everything from here on in.

[junkuser]

That's an interesting drive on your drill Nick.  Your own design?

[Nick Moore]

Quoted from junkuser

That's an interesting drive on your drill Nick.  Your own design?

No, it's a very old drill that my brother bought from a workshop sale. I suspect the top cover was added to keep fingers and hair out of the belt drive. It's a perfect spot for the socket set!

I really should tidy the garage more before taking these shots. You can also see the Herald's original engine, the corroded '27 Dodge engine and to the left, the Dodge chassis. Enough projects for a few years. You can also see the pedestal fan - it was stinking hot down there yesterday. And no thanks, I don't want to swap a heatwave for floods 😎

[junkuser]

Please don't tidy anything Nick, you'll never find things again, only remember where they used to be and, more importantly, make me feel less comfortable with the state of my workshop.

Hope the next sojourn to the coalfields runs smoothly,
Mal.

P.S. I used to do a bit of work for a bloke out of Capella. His property, "Valeria", has now been taken over for mining, from what I found on the NET.

[rotoflex]

Quoted from timbancroft61

Quite a few people in CT have owned cars for a long time:

Derek Pollock: TR4: 51(?) years

Dave Langrick: Spitfire mk4: 31 years

Nigel Gair: 2000 mk2 Saloon: 28 (?) years

Dave Pearson: TR5: 35 (?) years

Tim Hunt: TR4A: 40 (?) years

Mike Bishop: 1300: 35 (?) years

I have had my GT6 30 years.

Bill Hooper, GT6:  37 years
That can't be right, that would make me middle-aged or something

[Tim Bancroft]

Blimey, Bill!!

Top man keeping the car that long, a man of taste and distinction I think!

[Nick Moore]

The bonnet's back on. To avoid anything hitting its underside, I made sure its hinges were as high as possible and put plasticene on the obvious high spots - the alternator, radiator cap, rocker cover bolts and hose clips. Happily, all those components turned out to have miles of clearance under the bonnet. Unfortunately, the alternator bracket, a component I hadn't thought twice about, was just a fraction too high. It took two attempts to figure out where it was hitting, so there are not one but two scratches to repaint once the car's built  (angry)

The offending bracket was part of the mounting kit for the Nippon Denso alternator. For some reason, the mounting instructions specified mounting the alternator higher on the block, using a saloon's casting instead of the original mount. I still can't see why - the lower position will lower the centre of gravity, and it doesn't interfere with anything else, and the valence will protect the alternator from water and dirt. It also looks neater, I think. As a bonus, it will allow me to separate the wiring looms for the coil pack and alternator - I was already rethinking my decision to combine them, as the high current pulses to the coil pack could have produced electrical interference.

Nowt else to report just yet. A driveshaft shop is making up a 680mm long, 60mm wide Supra to Subaru tailshaft, which should be ready next week. Otherwise, it's just wiring and more wiring. And between the injection, ignition and about 30 fuses, there're a lot of wires!

[Nick Moore]

Here's a question for the EFI gurus: which inlet manifold will be better? My options are either some original PI manifolds, slightly angled down so that the fuel rail clears the bonnet, or a custom manifold. Either option will use a 56mm throttle body, which I already have, and 4-hole injectors to produce a wide spray cone. As I see it, there are pros and cons to each option.

PI manifolds:
Pros:

• Already have them
  
• Been done before
  
• Retains a 'factory' appearance
  
• Airbox has internal trumpets
  

Cons:

• Need to be cut, angled and welded for bonnet clearance
  
• Airbox smaller than optimal (although it can be opened up)
  
• Injector angle may be flatter than optimal, ie not pointing straight at the back of the valve, once the manifolds have been angled down.
  

Custom manifold:
Pros:

• Air box volume & injector angles can be optimised
  
• May be able to increase runner length slightly
  

Cons:

• Requires more engineering and therefore more expensive
  
• Will be obviously non-factory
  

As you can see, the manifolds and log just fit under the bonnet now - in fact they look like they belong there! However, the fuel rail won't clear, and the throttle body probably won't either. So cut-and-shut will be needed for PI manifolds. Comments please?

[Bainzy]

Looks fab Nick!

For me, it'd be original manifolds all the way if I had a 6 pot. They look the business, the internal trumpets noticeably improve performance yet are hard to do on a custom manifold, and injector angle doesn't really make that much difference off idle anyway, especially if you're using 4 hole injectors.

[GT6 M]

Nick, that air bleed vavle will have to go,
so too its marra on the log, they will foul the bonnet

Fuel rail, IF ye use  ready bought stuff, it will foul, UNLESS, its curved doonwards alot.
its the no 1 cyl thats the prob, 2 to a lesser extent

mekyer own up,its quite simples

If going this route again, I will mill the injector bases oot deeper,
there no much that can be took oot, but an 1/8th is alott, when ye pushed for space.

Also can shave the mani faces off , frae a 1/16th to nowt, this wau the other end will sit lower.
Butt, will all need to be the same., but be keep an eye on  log to bulk heed touching.
also try and lower engine a bit, there not much, as rack, and its mounts are int way

And wid an underslung OE rod set up,  it { rod ends } will foul the  ex mani,
EVEN with packers on the links fixing brackets on inlet manis.
they will need packing any way, 2 3/8th  full nuts will suffice.

As for a single throttle valve, would be tempted to fit it ..under neath the logg, in the middle,
and nut on the end like most set ups.
a few  reasons, one its v tight on the end, needs angled doon alot.
there will / is  moer room to play with
and also, will get a better air distribution if fitted under neath,Butt, the inlet to log will need to be elongated
a little, so its not spoiling the sides of the log, also will give better air feed if elongated.

Tiptoptip,  take rad off, and then ye can squeezes yer sell up into the engine bay,
an wid bonnet shut, can see just whats needed better.
Or take headlamp and bowl oot, and also see thru there, but no as good.

....And can also see thru the vents ye pinched of me,  

raising bonnet, upsets shut lines a bit along door  /  top sill lines,
so is a no no, unless yer altering the panels to match
Its a v v tight fit under a GT bonnet, if there no bumps to be put into bonnet

you got me PB link, have a good study.

Ohh,a wee tip, drill a wol in  bottom of each mani, as near to  flange as poss.
about 3/8-7/16th, will let all the water out, and can also flush crap that settles in there easier.  Cos ye will be washing the engine noo an then,  wont ye,!!!!

m

[Nick Jones]

I can see both sides of this - and I have both!

As some of you know, my Vitesse has a home made plenum manifold.  At the time, this was because I didn't have any PI parts and I thought (correctly) that they would need modifying anyway.

The home made manifold is a fabrication in mild steel using 30mm ID exhaust tube and 2mm sheet for the box plenum.  The transition from plenum to runners is blended but there are no stub-stacks.  It cost very little make, works really well and I've not messed with it at all.  In fact, it's been off just once since it original fitting in 2005ish when I rebuilt the head.  The internally standard engine (bar some minimal DIY head work) makes 120 bhp with this and a Pheonix 6-3-1.  In a few weeks I'll be seeing how it copes with a more radical cam.

My PI uses PI hardware apart from the elimination of the 6 throttles and addition of a single one on the end of the plenum.  Visually this is the most appropriate method and it's pretty easy because the main parts were designed for the car anyway.  However, I do have some gripes with this arrangement.  I've never been able to get as reliable idle or very low speed pickup compared to the Vitesse even though they use the same standard cam and have very similar management.  I think this is due to flow velocities in the manifold, which is too big really.  This effect is probably made worse by taking the individual butterflies out.  Don't get me wrong, it works pretty well but the Vitesse is better.  Top end all is fine and RR figure was 148bhp peak with a very flat torque curve from the std "132" cam with some head work and TR6 manifold.

Also,  there are multiple opportunities for vacuum leaks and the consequences of one of the large rubber link pipes splitting or coming adrift could be quite nasty - like the throttle sticking open.  I'm tempted to make another fabricated one, though the more limited fitting access in the PI would mean it needed to be a more complex thing than the Vitesse one.

As a half way house, one could change the way the TBs and plenum link up.  I've considered getting some tube bends formed and welding them tot the plenum stubs.  On the TB side these would slot into the count-bores usually occupied by the rings the rubber pipes clamp onto.  Welded plates would bolt up to the TBs to hold everything secure.  The tube bends can be shaped to place the plenum where you want it and maybe gain a bit of length.

Cheers

Nick

[doortoh 1]

I have been following your build for some time...very interesting details..glad you removed distributor bush to clean out swarf...threads in triumph side plugs and front gallery are UNF not npt or bsp..i would like to know if you fitted extra thrust washer to rear main cap as this is a weak point with uprated clutches....if you are getting a bit excited with cornering and braking you should have the sump baffled...even a simple one will help...as far as external oil feed to rocker gear..it will work quite well if it is made correctly.....those rockers need oil...valve springs get some cooling effect from oil spray...big horsepower race V/8's run springs partially submerged in oil...as far as cam follower life is concerned ...nitrided triumph ones are usually ok and these can be done locally..be wary of ridiculous valve seat pressure from over springing.....good quality oil..high zinc will help...so do lead additives available to put in engine oil...when setting your cam timing i am unable to see how you got TDC...positive stop method is the only one that is acceptable...dial indicatore are not good enough... valve lift at TDC is very important..more so on bigger cams..Triumph 6 likes a small amount of cam advance,,2 to 3 deg. is ok  a bit more for big cams...improves midrange torque...if your manifold is too high ..the mounting face can be machined to an angle to lower outer edge...bolt holes will need attention...will be interested in seeing how good it goes for you..contact me if you need any help..i am in Brisbane