iomgt6 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Hi everyone, I have fitted new steering rack solid mounts to my mk3 1971 gt6 as an upgrade I noticed that they seemed to bring the height of the rack down about 1/4" to 1/2" obviously this then forced the wheels outward whilst this is no problem as the car is booked in for alignment anyway I am just wondering now if this could potentially cause any other steering problem also while on the subject I intend to fit 330 lb 1 inch lower front springs will this then need the steering alignments to done again, thanks all, paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nang Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 I'd do all your mods first before getting a wheel alignment.Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomgt6 Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 I agree Tony would normally do this but as I imported the car to the Isle of Man I have had to book the car for inspection to be on the road my years grace is nearly up so need to get it passed first before I can do anything further, paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Make some spacers to take up the difference. A good idea if you are fitting lowered springs too. Otherwise it will make the car bumpsteer more.I used some 8mm thick steel plate under my mounts, cut to size, drill clearance holes, really simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevesspit16 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Curious why you went with solid mounts? my understanding is that they are horrible for road use, very harsh. I AutoCross my Spit with factory mounts and it handles pretty nicely with those, I've heard so many guys, even with just the poly versions not liking them. But I'm not here to question I'm with Clive on the spacers as a solution to your current situation.Also, before spending money on an alignment you may want to research "Home Alignment". Tonnes of guys do it and it works great. Perfect for your scenario where you'll be doing a few adjustments, and you may (should) want to tweak it outside of factory numbers, especially front camber and toe. This way you can muck about with it to get exactly what you like and not have to re-vi$it the shop. I've never taken my Spit in for alignment, just use the string method and some simple math.Good luck with it however you go.Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomgt6 Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 Thanks for replies, I have some 8mm sheet aluminium so will probably use this it was my thought to use but wonder why the people who made the mounts didn't make them the right size odd really, anyway Steve I was led to believe this is an upgrade and I will say the original rubber mounts made the steering feel vague/spongy, I have watched greasemonkeygarage video on setting up the alignment very good but he says he is doing this before he takes it to a garage to get it properly aligned also the other problem is my garage floor is not level or flat, anyway appreciate all input as I am learning a lot from you more experienced guys, thanks Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Did the grease monkey method use 2 straight edges leaned against the tyres and a tape measure? That is the method I use, and it really works. If the garage floor is pretty level I think you will be OK.BTW the 8mm measurement is only what I used. Use something that will bring the rack height to what it was originally, or if you are using lowered springs, a couple of mm more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Not sure where this " solid mounts = harsh" myth originates.I have solid rack mounts and proper UJ coupling on my Vitesse, so no flex anywhere. Direct yes. Harsh, no.On the Spit we have polybushes in the original brackets and they are fine too when the everything is properly fitted with the brackets tensioned to compress the bushes - something that is often not done.Never noticed the height different before - will have to check that. Not that I think I have a spare 8mm between rack and sump, more like 3mm! Perhaps not all solid mounts are the same?Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevesspit16 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 I've never had 'em Nick; just going by what I've heard. I know one guy who didn't last a day with solid mounts.I guess they were a little too "direct" for him. You call it a Myth, I call it anecdotal evidence from at least one guy I trust. Maybe one day I'll give 'em a go so I can see for myself; you may-well be right.As for soft steering, another consideration might be wheels/tires; if you are still running 13" wheels I think a step up there could give you the effect you seek; those high sidewalls can be pretty bendy. In my opinion they'll move about much more than a tiny doughnut of compressed rubber.I think that if you do the alignment yourself, even just to get it in the ballpark you'll see how easy it is to be accurate; taking it in will likely not be necessary (again, I'm sure there are many of us who have never). A level floor is definitely a benny, but can be easily achieved with a reasonably straight 2x4 and a level. Make some pads for under your wheels and you're off to the races. Mark them and the floor for next time.This is one of the things I really encourage guys to try.... seems intimidating, but worst case is you're no further behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 solid rack mounts will I suspcet result in a bit of rattle from the nearsdie as you can't include the little nylon button.CheersColimn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Quoted from thescrapman solid rack mounts will I suspcet result in a bit of rattle from the nearsdie as you can't include the little nylon button.CheersColimn Simple, use a tiewrap or jubilee clip to hold the nylon bit in place. Worked for me for 22 years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Its not direct enough until you rose joint the links, that makes it a proper job if you have set up the castor / camber properly, but thats another thread.RR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRTOM2498 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Agree with Nick here, will make your steering very positive, and not harsh. I have ran like this for at least 5 years and many thousands of miles without an issue.Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 I too do not understand why some people have issues with harshness using solid mounts either with or without a solid UJ. It just feels direct. Even Gill (lady wife) has never commented on a harsh feel ( however she is not so keen on the 480lb springs at the front of her spitfire, but is happy with them on my car. Odd....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martins Stag Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 I would agree with Clive I ran Solid mounts on my 2.5 spitfire for 10 year plus and it was fine. I would never describe it as harsh. Positive Yes. Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve AKA vitessesteve Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 I have run solid rack mounts on my Vitesse for years. They are a fit a forget item whereas the old style rubber ones will perish with age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomgt6 Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 well I have checked this morning measuring the old rubber mounts against the new fitted solid mounts low and behold they measure the same so I have left alone also I now suspect I may already have lowered springs as I cannot get 2 finger between wheel and arch the other thing I notice is it has Spax dampers so it looks like it may have been sorted, its a problem when you buy a car and don't know whats been fitted before just wondering how can I tell what springs they are, thanks paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Measure the fitted length of the spring, it will indicate what you have. Post here and somebody may be able to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efp Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Leaving aside the height differences which I guess is maker specific and would need to be matched , I have seen it suggested that a combination of one solid and one rubber mounted gives an ideal compromise between tightness and compliance.Haven’t tried it myself. Is it a silly idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efp Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Quoted from cliftyhanger Measure the fitted length of the spring, it will indicate what you have. Post here and somebody may be able to help. Re the spring length, I’ve used Paul Giethner’s advice in his excellent pages as a benchmark.“A good compromise static front suspension geometry for a stiffened Spitfire at rest on level ground is when the lower A-arms are parallel to the ground. This is a reasonable compromise that lowers both the c.g. and the roll center without increasing the roll moment too much. This geometry occurs when the total distance between the center of the bolt attaching the damper to the lower A-arm and the upper spring seat is 10.25 inches. Because the distance from the lower A-arm to damper (shock absorber) connection and the bottom spring seat is nominally 3.25 inches, this also corresponds to a compressed length of the front coil springs installed of 7 inches.”As I understand it, whatever your spring rate, those measurements are ideal but of course depend on having shocks with adjustable seats to achieve it. But I stand to be corrected by those here with better knowledge of suspension than me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 This is a valid point that Ian makes. The solid mounts do NOT have any positive lateral location mechanism and so do rely entirely on clamping force from the mounts. Not ideal, but easy enough to rectify.This is the quick, dirty and cheap (but effective) way of dealing with it - and the one on the other end can also be used to hold the nylon anti-rattle button down too. I've also seen cut-down versions of the original rubbers used too. Note that either solution is intended as a backstop measure; the rack should be clamped by the mounts and generally they do this just fine.Incidentally, it occurs to me that the harshness people talk about may just be the solid mounting no longer disguising and softening backlash from knackered components......Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paudman Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Quoted from efp Leaving aside the height differences which I guess is maker specific and would need to be matched , I have seen it suggested that a combination of one solid and one rubber mounted gives an ideal compromise between tightness and compliance.Haven’t tried it myself. Is it a silly idea? Only if you do it on each side.Seriously, one solid clamp will hold it steady, so any movement in the rubber one won't make a bit of difference; if the metal one doesn't hold it steady, there's no point in fitting it in the first place as you might as well get the movement from two rubber ones... so you get the idea.Like any rubber component, regular replacement removes any movement caused by deterioration and should leave the steering relatively sharp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomgt6 Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 Ah yes the slide problem I had too and I came up with the same solution Nick a jubilee clip just happens to be about the right width, I also fettled the mount to make sure there was no high spots on the radii's and to make a good all around fit, I also got rid of the standard u/j which contains rubber, paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny-Jimbo Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 I have a pair of mounts for the Ginetta which have a longer block on the base to support the plates built into the rack. Not sure who makes them though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMPUS Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Quoted from Jonny-Jimbo I have a pair of mounts for the Ginetta which have a longer block on the base to support the plates built into the rack. Not sure who makes them though. I've seen these at Moss europe, also in the USA they sell these to.I have fitted some to another Triumphs a few weeks back and was also worried that the rack could slide 😲 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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