"new" MkIV 1300 engine

[efp]

If anyones got too much money left after xmas and fancies a factory reconditioned engine with 0 miles on it, may I draw your attention to this:

AgAAOSwBkRZ-ewu">https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRI.....8:gAgAAOSwBkRZ-ewu

FH series I think unfortunately, but as I understand it Gold Seal motors were recons hand built to higher standards than production line originals. Seller is Tony Fitchet who says it has been in his stores for 30 years.

(Declaration of interest: in a fit of madness I just bought the other one he had available.. Mine won't take another rebore and given the seeming scarcity of good engines, their price, plus the cost of a full recon on what might be a junker, its didn't seem too bad a deal)

[efp]

Curious as to the total lack of reaction to this.

Is it because you all think me a complete dick for blowing a grand on an unflavoured engine variant ? Fair enough.

But I’d have thought a zero mile motor, effectively NOS, from a reputable vendor, would have been of interest to others too.

Looks like I’m wrong then.

[yorkshire_spam]

I think the lack of reaction is down to the forum being pretty dead at the moment... the posting rate is well down and many of the "old regulars" don't seem to be around these days.
If it's "pukka" £1000 sounds reasonable to me!

[DanM]

Not a bad price at all, it cost me way more to recon my 1147 and really nothing wrong with the mk4 1300 particularly if it is an early one with the mk3 profile cam, though not sure how you would know with a recon unit. I would make sure everything gets a good squirt of oil and a turn over by hand though as it has been sitting a long time

[Mark Hammond]

£1000 seems as cheap as a budgie to me!  I think you've done alright there.  You couldn't get the old one reconditioned for that with provenance.

Mark

[Nick Jones]

It's true that it would probably cost more than that to fully recon an existing engine properly, so in that sense it's a good deal, especially if you would have had to source another block.

However, Gold Seal or even "factory recon" engines are not necessarily better than any other recon engine as they were done in a number of different places.  I've had a couple of "factory recon" engines apart in the past that had some "interesting" features, although to be fair they could have had further attention since the factory recon.

Nick

[efp]

Well, it’s in a fitted shipping crate stencilled  Gold seal genuine factory replacement unit, and  Worn Unit to be Returned in this case,  all apertures are masked over and  covered with the same gold paint as the rest of the engine, and there are a bunch of Unipart labels, regarding such things as a reminder to retorque the head, , and advice the This engine contains a sealant and inhibitor, Do Not Flush.
I’m pretty confident it’s the real deal. Doubt TD Fitchett would play games.

[Nick Jones]

Not doubting it's the real deal.  Just saying "better than new" is just old marketing hype!

Look forward to hearing how it goes and hope it's an excellent one!

Nick

[efp]

Thanks Nick, I hear what you are saying.

Hope to pick it up next week, will report back.

[efp]

Incidentally, re my second post, obviously I meant unfavoured rather than autocorrect’s “unflavoured”.

Though not sure I find that gold paint job very tasteful. It is at least mint..

(groan, sorry..)

Believe the FH number indicates its the later large crank variant which I understand aren’t as desired by the competitive, but for a granny driver like me it will do fine.  In fact, other than checking it over I think it will probably stay cased and filled with its anti corrosion fluids until I actually need it.

Suggestions as to what checks  I could make on such a 30+ year old unused engine without actually starting it or dismantling  too much would be welcomed

[glang]

I would certainly like to look inside sooner rather than later at cam or crank or both to check for any corrosion....

[Tim Bancroft]

Think it would be prudent to get some cam lube onto the camshaft and cam followers before first start up.

£1K is a good price, good luck with the installation, start up, running in and the future with the engine.

[garyf]

Interesting to see some of the other parts listed by TD Fitchetts too, how about a N.O.S. TR7 Convertible Body Shell!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRI.....c:g:S~YAAOSwzVxZbyql

[Guppy916]

snap it up, I spent more than that having mine lightened and balanced, (GT6 MK3)

[thescrapman]

Fitchetts had crated 2000 engines as well a few years ago.

Would have been saloon engines I guess.

[GT6DavidMK1]

Quoted from Mark Hammond

£1000 seems as cheap as a budgie to me!  I think you've done alright there.  You couldn't get the old one reconditioned for that with provenance.

Mark

Having just done a short engine this week for a 13/60 Herald, including new pistons, mains, big ends, oil pump, crank grind, boring and head re-faced etc, taken out striped and put back together and installed in the car, up running for the customer £1200 😉 Ready to collect this week.

David.

[69vitesse]

Genuine Gold Seal engines were a better bet than the OEM engines as during the rebuild process, all the parts had to be measured and be within tolerance, something not guaranteed with a ‘new’ engine. Any wear outside 0.020” got a new part rather than a regrind. They were also run on a test bed for half an hour before crating up and shipping- so at least you were sure all the piston rings and bearings had been fitted.

On new Leyland cars, Any major mechanical upset in the first 3,000 miles was supposed to got a replacement engine.
But that, thanks to the often high problem rate meant there was frequently a shortage of ‘Gold Seal’ remanufactured engines, so new engines would be painted gold and put into the ‘remanufactured’ supply chain. Not hard to see why Leyland went broke!

[rlubikey]

I had two Gold Seal "The No-Con Re-Con" 1500's back in 1989 - the second one under guarantee. The first drank oil at 1l every 100 miles and the second one would loose power in a stuttering way at sustained high speed. Oh, and the gorilla at the local dealer who did the replacement didn't line up the clutch and swore blind that the resulting clutch judder is "what you sometimes got with these". I didn't know about "pringle" shaped back plates in those days. I was later told that these Gold Seals were put out to tender and done by the lowest cost outfit who would tick all the boxes. What I would say is that it's probably a good basis for a careful rebuild, eye-balling every part.

Good luck, Richard

[69vitesse]

In 1989, the factory was long gone and yes, ‘extinct’ engines were farmed out to remanufacturing outfits - some good, some , like the infamous ‘Heathrow Engines’, aweful.

The faults you describe could just as easily affect a new Triumph btw. My then new Sprint ate it’s engine at 44 miles when an unhardened oil pump drive let go. Friend of mine had a Stag that broke its crank, it had been shipped with a missing crank shell.  A set of new main bolts I bought for a Sprint were supplied unhardened - I wonder how many sets of them made it onto the production line?
The end of the Leyland Years were a bit if a QC lottery, a ‘strike car’ was Often a vale of tears. Two days PDI and rectification work in the workshop and bodyshop for a new car was quite normal in the late 70’s. The old mans new Toledo spent a week in PDI/rectification and needed its front wing and a sill repainting as they were already rusting.

[Paudman]

Quoted from rlubikey

I was later told that these Gold Seals were put out to tender and done by the lowest cost outfit who would tick all the boxes.

Reminds me of the famous quote by the moon-bound Apollo astronaut who, whilst waiting for blast-off, was asked how he felt.
He replied: "How would you feel, sitting on the top of the end results of a thousand low-bidders?"

[efp]

Interesting chaps, thanks. With some trepidation I’m off to darkest Telford tomorrow to pick it up, but circumstances dictate I won’t have time to give it a good check over for some time. I will report back if and when I do.
I say that because on one level it’s like buying a bottle of fine old vintage wine: the only way to know if it’s any good is to open it,  but by doing so you destroy it’s scarcity value, and a factory fresh 0 mile engine is up there with the rarest Chateau Lafittes in my book.  I may well just leave it untouched in a cool dark place in my cellar.

I note all your comments, and yes, of course it’s something of a gamble but, going only on the pictures supplied, the Unipart labels, it’s  provenance and the sticker indicating it’s filled with a sealant / inhibibitor give me hope it’s been well rebuilt and well preserved. No warranty has been discussed, nor in all fairness would I really expect one on such an antique, untouched in its shipping crate for 40 plus years. Fully accept it’s a case of caveat emptor, but fingers crossed. Worst case scenario I could break it for parts  and probably more than make my money back

[Mark Hammond]

Honestly?  I wouldn’t worry.  Fit your engine and enjoy your car.

Mark

[efp]

Ok, Lafite might be overstating it a bit, I was drinking a rather mediocre plonk when I wrote that, as you might tell..
But still, there’s plenty of life in my current engine, no rush to replace it with something little if anything better, and there can’t be too many examples of a “new” engine like that existing, so not in a rush to open the bottle as it were.

[efp]

Shamelessly bumping my own thread, have now taken a look at this engine, given the issues I’m having with my 1147.
Still in its factory crate, it had 30+  year old oil inside, which while having prevented any corrosion has congealed somewhat within all the bearings I’ve checked so far, to a slightly grease-like consistency while remaining liquid in the sump.
I’ve drained this, dropped the sump and cleaned up the big ends followed with a good slather of assembly lube, put some oil down the bores and now it turns, albeit stiffly. Not forcing anything, just good to know nothing is corroded seized.

I can continue cleaning up the cam, rockers etc but suspect the “grease” will be lingering in the oilways etc.
Short of total dismantling and tanking can anyone suggest anything.? Toying with the idea of filling with a light oil, pumping it through periodically by driving the oil pump with a drill, over a few weeks, (or months..) and hoping it will dissolve into it.

Any better ideas?

[thescrapman]

Is it actually the lubricant applied when the engine was built?

Like a storage protectant?