Carbon Offset . Personal choice.

[Rosbif]

1 hour ago, Roger Keys said:

Can you can wait 30 years for your firewood though?

People here do, it is quite common to buy land & plant trees as a 'pension fund'. When we moved here we were surprised by how many people we met who owned '1/2 a forest', they were amazed we didn't.

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[thescrapman]

On 06/02/2022 at 21:11, Wendy Dawes said:

Why not set up your own carbon offset  organisation 

then they pay for your trees 😁

I wonder if it is tax deductible?

[Dale]

I can tell you that an enormous amount of time, discussion, thought and research has gone into this, much of it by Chris Shaw who is CT's Carbon Balancing bod, and that he has gone back to the FBHVC numerous times with questions, suggestions and recommendations to which I must say they have been satisfyingly responsive and reactive.

In the wake of earlier 'Carbon Offset' attempts on CT events with private companies some years ago when the subject first came up, which never produced the kind of accountability which we wanted, we (the Committee) have been much warier this time and have been asking some fairly pointed questions about this scheme. It is only after having received believable assurances on the accountability question and also our insistence on knowing where the trees will be planted when that happens and that they will not subsequently be harvested and not automatically replaced, for example that we have opted for the FBHVC scheme.

It is also worth mentioning that as an early adopter of the scheme we have have had a pretty disproportionately large input/influence on how the scheme is structured for such a relatively small club and that, to date, we have only 'signed up' for a few of our events to use the 'Event Mileage' side of it and of course to publish details of the 'Personal Membership' side so that members can decide for themselves whether or not to join.

There is a pretty comprehensive article on all this from Chris Shaw which will appear in the March issue of Club Torque, which is currently under construction, and I hope that this will inform much more fully than this Forum post.

[Chriss]

I have been so busy recently with the C2C and writing aforementioned article that I have not see this thread in the Forum.  Thank you all who have contributed to this thread.

The impact of classic vehicle usage globally on the environment is negligible. However we try to save the planet will not make any noticeable difference.  Therefore our problem is not saving the Earth, but saving the club.  There is a major risk that legislation will curb the use of our vehicles almost to the point of not being able to use them (see Germany) and misinformed members of the public will make life very uncomfortable for our members when using their Triumphs. It is the perception of politicians and the public is the problem we need to address as a club.

By supporting The Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs (FBHVC) through Tree-V we are funding the campaign to limit government action on restricting the use of our cars.  No other scheme does this. The FBHVC  is an organisation established with the prime objective of protecting the future of our hobby through political and industrial lobbying to secure sympathetic legislation and continued fuel supplies. Club Triumph is a member of this organisation.

Planting trees is a statement of responsibility and acknowledgement of the global problem and the sticker shown by Darren is a physical sign of our commitment.  The FBHVC will issue to subscribers advice on self protection from aggressive  members of the public and CT will keep members up to date with best practice.

The Committee believes this course of action is is currently the best way to address this issue. Over time the scheme and the club will evolve to protect the club and its members.

 

 

[Rosbif]

1 hour ago, Chriss said:

There is a major risk that legislation will curb the use of our vehicles almost to the point of not being able to use them (see Germany)

It isn't gloom a doom everywhere, thankfully. The situation here in France is much brighter and is a good example of how the future could turn out.

A car that is 30 years or more old can be registered as 'collection rather than 'normal' as long as it meets certain conditions, principle one being not to have had the engine replaced by a more powerful one. Up until some years ago a vehicle 'collection' was limited to where it could be driven. It could only be used in the department of its registration and those 'limitrophe' that is to say neighbouring. This has been abolished and we are free to roam.

Once a car is registered as such it is no longer considered a mere vehicle but part of the 'patrimoine' (national heritage) just like a chateau etc. This means that a car cannot be written off by an insurance company as being beyond economic repair. The CT, Contrôle Technique (MOT) is every 5 years not every 2, and of course is less demanding than for a 'normal' registered vehicle.

The current position regarding the various low pollution zones here, which are pretty much like those in the UK for the purposes of this piece is moving in our favour. Up until now the FFVE, Fédération Française des Véhicules de l'Epoque, have negotiated with each region/city/town/urban group individually and every single zone acted or currently planned has accepted to exclude vehicles registered as 'collection' from the restrictions. Good news and gets better. The latest meetings between the government and the FFVE have resulted in the government accepting to make this exemption a standard feature in these zones where ever they are introduced.

Aware of the need to be able to show that a vehicle meets this classification there have been discussions on how it could be done. One proposal was that registration numbers would be different to the standard layout and maybe include a 'H' for historique. This isn't happening. I assume do to the cost of implementing it and how they get the computer system to cope. More sensibly they have opted for a 'vignette' a sticker like the old tax disc. There is currently a system where cars are classed according to their pollution levels and get a 'Crit Air' rating. 5 being the worst and 1 the best plus a specific all electric one.

The idea of a 'vignette' is also to help with the question of the reaction of people to our old polluting cars, to show we are part of the 'patrimoine' of France.

So, things in the future can be good - as long as their is petrol to put in the tank of course.

Sorry for being a bit/lot long winded but I hope the above helps.

I an certain that in the UK the organisations working on your behalf will find a way forward.

Behind the grey cloud there is some sunshine . . .when it appears I'm off for a blast in my chateau on wheels! 

[DVD3500]

3 hours ago, Chriss said:

 

The impact of classic vehicle usage globally on the environment is negligible. However we try to save the planet will not make any noticeable difference.  Therefore our problem is not saving the Earth, but saving the club.  There is a major risk that legislation will curb the use of our vehicles almost to the point of not being able to use them (see Germany) and misinformed members of the public will make life very uncomfortable for our members when using their Triumphs. It is the perception of politicians and the public is the problem we need to address as a club.

 

 

 

I live in Germany so I am curious as to what the problem is you are referring to...?

 

[Chriss]

I understand from FBHVC representatives that there have been a number of laws passed in Germany that have restricted the use and modification of classic cars.  They sight Germany's direction as one that they wish to prevent the UK taking.

[Roger Keys]

5 hours ago, Chriss said:

It is the perception of politicians and the public is the problem we need to address as a club.

 

In a nutshell.

It is, really, an information/propaganda war. The "other side" has almost unlimited resources. This wont be an easy battle.

 

[DVD3500]

19 hours ago, Chriss said:

I understand from FBHVC representatives that there have been a number of laws passed in Germany that have restricted the use and modification of classic cars.  They sight Germany's direction as one that they wish to prevent the UK taking.

Please pass those on to me (even as a PM) as the only rules I am aware of is that if a city has a pollution control zone your car must meet or exceed the emissions standard (which no car older than  10 years can: exception EVs) OR you have to have a "historical" license plate which is fairly complicated (the car has to be as original as possible and can only have "period" modifications) to get unless you are chummy with a MOT (TÜV) engineer.

The fact that you can't easily tune/modify your car has always been the case in Germany and has to do with their general attitude of risk aversion (coming in second place in two world wars will do that...) and nothing with classic cars per se...

 

[Chriss]

I don't have any details, but it is along the lines you are mentioning.

Roger, that is why clubs like ours need to band together, as that way we are stronger.  The FBHVC  represent all member car clubs and have a voice that can be heard by politicians.  CT is a member of the FBHVC.  Some of the money spent supporting their scheme goes to supporting their lobbying.

[Horace]

Ah, a bit of pointless green-washing a la large corporations - it does absolutely nothing but somehow seems to be expected by someone - mea culpa is the modern disease - and in the meantime Putin invades the Ukraine……

[Horace]

Somehow reminds of this from Beyond the Fringe…….
 

Peter Cook: I want you to lay down your life, Perkins. We need a futile gesture at this stage. It will raise the whole tone of the war. Get up in a crate, Perkins, pop over to Bremen, take a shufti, don't come back. Goodbye, Perkins. God, I wish I was going too.

Jonathan Miller: Goodbye, sir — or is it — au revoir?

Peter Cook: No, Perkins.

[Tim Hunt]

I chose to offset 3,000 miles anticiapted usage, would have happily paid for 5,000, which would have covered the highly fuel efficient daily driver this year as well but this bracket, although expected to be added, is not yet available. I hope the sticker, displayed with 'tax' disc as in picture, elicits some comment from members of the public so I have the chance to tell the story and correct misapprensions on classic car usage.  

It might look like your Chairman was a little late to the party but in my defence the sticker took over 3 weeks to arrive after my order.

Blast this software, it upends a picture from my iPhone but if I rotate it 180 degs befrore posting then rather than being reversed it still posts the wrong way up! 

[Tim Hunt]

I have subscribed to the Tree-V scheme for a second year and received my sticker yesterday, which is now proudly displayed in the TR's screen. I singed up to balance 3,000 miles, which unfortunately will more than cover my mileage in the car this year as I cannot take part in the RBRR.

[yorkshire_spam]

1 hour ago, Tim Hunt said:

I have subscribed to the Tree-V scheme for a second year and received my sticker yesterday,

Nice one Tim! My 2 subscriptions are lapsing at the moment, but as soon as the cars are back on the road I'll be re-subscribing. 

 

[JohnD]

Took mine out a year ago, and just yesterday had an email from the FBMVC to say that since then they have captured 2 MILLION miles worth of classic driving.   This,  "equates to over 900 tonnes of CO2 being captured by 2700 trees!"

Doesn't sound that many!

John

[RobPearce]

I also got that email (having renewed for another 3000 miles, like Tim).

Two million miles is not that much. It's only ten RBRRs (assuming 100 cars average - so a few more starters but fewer finishers) or the typical annual mileage of a mid-sized company car fleet. But in "ordinary" classic car terms, it's quite a few cars.

[Wendy Dawes]

Renewed mine last week too 👍

[Amy Wade]

Once my Spitfire is back on the road I'll be signing up for it.