Welsh 30mph dropping to 20mph

[FloydP]

Just read that from the 17th September most of the 30mph speed limits in Wales are dropping to 20mph, Thought I’d mention it in case it effects the timings in the road book.

https://www.gov.wales/safer-20mph-lets-look-out-each-other?utm_source=D3-Eng-45-64-B2-aware-FB-IG-Feed

[McJim]

Don't think that this will be much of a problem, speaking as someone from a local authority roads background.

The vast majority of roads used in the Welsh section are trunk roads, under the control of the Welsh Government and as as such, will be unaffected by the 20mph proposal according to the Welsh Government website.

In any case, these proposals will take quite some time to be put into force with all the obligatory Traffic Regulation Orders and the necessary signage by which time, the RBRR will have been and gone.

The roads encompassed by this legislation will be those under the direct control of the Welsh Local Authorities or Councils.

The 17th September may be when this starts to roll out, but believe me, it takes more than a few months just to implement this.  It took the City of Edinburgh several years to just have the Traffic Regulation Orders in place and even longer to install all of the 20mph signs off the main routes in the city.

I wouldn't worry about it.

Jim.

Edited May 4, 2023 by McJim

[Tim Bancroft]

We will suggest to all entrants that they treat all towns and villages that we pass through as 'Quiet Zones' and ask them to adhere to the speed limits for that particular town.

[McJim]

All crews should be doing this as a matter of course. 

Bad driving and speeding reflect badly on the Club and the RBRR. 

Jim.

[docwad]

from bbc website 

for those of you driving cars that will do more than 20mph  

Will I be fined if I break the 20mph limit?

The new 20mph limit has come into force for all restricted roads, which are defined as ones with lampposts placed not more than 200 yards (about 180m) apart.

If you are pulled over doing more than 20mph in a built-up area in Wales you could, in theory, fined a minimum £100 and get three penalty points.

But police say the response will be proportionate and reasonable while drivers get used to the change as the focus for the first 12 months will be on education - as officers have a level of discretion.

GoSafe is made up of Wales' police forces, councils and the Welsh government, and applies the guidelines for road fines.

It said while the public gets used to the change in the limit, it will only start to prosecute at 26mph in a 20mph zone.

 

 

[McJim]

Don't you get the impression that this has been blown out of proportion?

We'll be driving through Wales in the middle of the night.

Police forces are stretched enough with limited resources during the day with fewer officers than ever available to enforce the existing speed limits, never mind the new "blanket" 20mph at two in the morning.

Your sat nav will tell you where the speed cameras are (if any).

The vast majority of roads along the route are trunk roads or main roads, not affected by the 20mph limit.

Storm in a teacup.

And what are you doing breaking the speed limit on the Round Britain anyway?

Jim.

[PeteStupps]

Yeah I don't think it'll be any sort of issue. But worth being aware of

[thescrapman]

What is amazing is how quickly they have rolled it out, in May Jim was saying the RBRR would be long gone before they even got going. 

It is in, and being enforced already.

Think speed (ironically) is the way to go now with contentious legislation.

Just remember, if you can see a street light, on or off, assume it is 20, as there is no requirement to sign the new limit.

[McJim]

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988, all changes in speed limits must be signposted with a red circle around the new limit to be enforceable.

Jim.

[thescrapman]

7 hours ago, McJim said:

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988, all changes in speed limits must be signposted with a red circle around the new limit to be enforceable.

Jim.

Sadly not, they have changed the default speed limit, so now do not have to sign post 20mph limits, but conversely do have to signpost 30mph limits.

[McJim]

Not quite.

Once inside a blanket 20mph zone, such as a residential area or town centre, there will be no further repeater 20mph speed limit signs.

No one is going to "drift" through an invisible barrier where the limit drops from 60mph to 20mph.

This is from the gov.wales website:

"20mph signs will no longer be needed on roads where the default is now 20mph. Speed limit signs will be in place where the speed limit changes."

The important part being the second sentence.

As I said before, under the Road Traffic Act 1988, all changes to a road's speed limit must have a circular sign with the posted speed limit with a red circle around the sign to show that the sign is mandatory.

Imagine the court case if there was no speed limit sign, only street lights.

The "offence" would be thrown out as it does not comply with the legislation.

Nowhere in the Road Traffic Act 1988 are streelights mentioned as notice of a change in speed limit as designated in the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016, nor the Traffic Signs Manual.

Think about it, how can you tell what the speed limit in England is from streetlights?

Is it 30mph?  is it 40mph?  Is it the colour of the lights?  The distance apart?  How do you judge the varying distance?

We have traffic signs for a reason - so there is no ambiguity.

So, unless Wales just turned every part of the road traffic legislation on his head (very, very doubtful), then let's return from la-la land of "I read it on Facebook, so it must be true" or "I heard a mate say, down the pub" and let's all try to deal with what we've all experienced in life so far and stick to facts. 

Or, if you're still not convinced, watch those streetlights.

Jim.  (Former Roads Engineer.)

[Pete PiEst]

I was there during this historic change over last Sunday.

20mph signs are up, a lot of roads going in to towns are 30 and then when going through the middle 20's have been put up.

Every Welsh person we spoke to hates Drakeford and think he'll be booted out as soon as they get a chance.

Cheers

Pete

[Buttercup]

1 hour ago, Pete PiEst said:

I was there during this historic change over last Sunday.

20mph signs are up, a lot of roads going in to towns are 30 and then when going through the middle 20's have been put up.

Every Welsh person we spoke to hates Drakeford and think he'll be booted out as soon as they get a chance.

Cheers

Pete

With the speed at which the petition is going (no pun intended), his end might indeed be near!! 326k in 3 days! Hope the momentum keeps going! https://petitions.senedd.wales/petitions/245548 

[Rubce]

More than 390k signatures as of this evening 

[McJim]

As a concerned resident of Cardiff, I added my name to the petition.

Between ULEZ zones - we have one in Glasgow and more are planned in cities in Scotland - then there's 20mph blanket areas, zones shut off to through traffic forcing everyone into gridlocked roads, where's the fun in driving?

What next?  Pay per mile?

It's coming, only a matter of time.

Jim.

[JohnD]

Absolutely right!  Bring back clogs, who needs shoe laces?