Green Stuff Pads

[Bitumen Boy]

Quoted from cliftyhanger

I will be controversial here. I use old stock asbestos pads that seem very capable everywhere, and lasting well.

(and despite what people say, there is very little health risk. Just think, there was not a trail of death left by every car from the early 1900's right up until they where phased out in the 1990's, or 2004 for pre 73 vehicles. As to asbestos related lung diseases, truly horrible, there is only a very slightly increased risk to those who worked long term as brake technicians, ie all day every day comparerd to the general population. take sensible precautions and the risk approaches zero.)

I agree 100%, Clive. I've been buying NOS pads for type 12 calipers (IMO perfectly good for road use) and have never had any problems. As to the supposed health risks, if asbestos linings were anything like as dangerous as some "experts" would have you believe then men of my dad's generation who always worked on their own cars and bikes ought to be dropping like flies with asbestos-related diseases, but it just isn't happening. But there, the risks are bound to be talked up when some people are making ££££££'s out of the "safe" treatment of asbestos...

[npanne]

Risks are probably minimal for the home mechanic who changes a set of pads once every couple of years,  but maybe it's a bit different if you work at a fitters and change four or five sets a day?

[JohnD]

Quoted from Matt306

I can't use it as the BHP selection only goes as low as 60

good point, well made.
But it's not the engine that stops the car.
John

[JohnD]

But ..... I once met a farmer, with a mesothelioma, thr cancer that asbetos causes, and only asbestos causes.  He had one encounter with asbetsos that he could recall, fitting asbestos-based roofing to a barn.
JOhn

[Matt306]

Quoted from JohnD

good point, well made.
But it's not the engine that stops the car.
John

Yes JohnD you are correct but as I can stop the car with bargain basement pads, I dont see the point in spending a load on expensive pads when the cheapest do the job. Greenstuff are rated for light cars for road use, which is what i do.

If they start to fade at hot I'll go get some grooved discs.

[Clive]

Quoted from npanne

Risks are probably minimal for the home mechanic who changes a set of pads once every couple of years,  but maybe it's a bit different if you work at a fitters and change four or five sets a day?

I found a paper about the incidence of asbestos related deaths. For brake mechanics there was only a slightly increased incidence. I have a passing interest, I studied some of this stuff at Uni, and my first job involved analysis of suspected asbestos materials (in between all sorts of other lab work, much of it slightly bizarre)
You are probably more likely to get lung disease from keeping a budgie! (I jest not)

[Nick Jones]

And definitely much more likely to get it from smoking......

Still genuinely curious to know how you find the Greenstuff pads Matt.  

Interesting also how people's experiences vary.  DS2500 are getting a bad review a couple of posts back, whereas I've been using them since 2009 (same set whole time in fact) and the only things I can find to gripe about was the initial purchase price, which made me take a deep breath at the time (though I now consider them good value even so) and that they have slightly less cold bite than Mintex M1144.  They work great, we haven't managed to fade them (and we've certainly tried), they've lasted nearly 30k so far with plenty of meat left, the discs are fine and dust rather less than either Mintex 1144 or Greenstuff.

Nick

[willows40]

I've had green stuff pads on my mgbgt auto with grooved discs for last 8 years, only thing I've really noticed is that if you do a lot of gentle braking for a few weeks, they do lose some feel and stopping gets worse. All I do is take it for a B road blast with heavy braking and that brings them back up. The pads are getting low now so will try mintex pads next time

[JohnD]

VENTED discs better use of your money.

[ferny]

You may not think brake fluid will make much difference, but it does. For years I used the Halfords own-brand stuff but found braking deteriorated after around 3 months. It was still fine to use, but I noticed a difference to the pedal feel. I moved to Pagid as others have said and was happy. Took around 11 months for the same to happen to it. Currently I use Millers 5.1 and it's superior in every way. I won't be swapping to another. My fluids get changed on a 12 month(ish) cycle.

As to asbestos pads. I'd say the ones I used were almost as good as the 1144's. Perhaps age had impacted their performance? I did also get them to fade at Donnington and I found as they were thin you could make them fade on the road.

I'd only recommend 1144's now to others. You may be happy with your Green Stuff, some people are. If you swapped to 1144's you'd probably like them more. According to that tool I should be using YellowStuff... Apparently even OrangeStuff if I go on track. Either way, the Green Stuff aren't "cheap pads" and won't cause you to crash. You'll still be able to lock your wheels up with them if needed.

[Matt306]

Quoted from JohnD

VENTED discs better use of your money.

Will these fit standard calipers? I have seen solid grooved discs.

[Matt306]

Quoted from ferny

You may not think brake fluid will make much difference, but it does. For years I used the Halfords own-brand stuff but found braking deteriorated after around 3 months. It was still fine to use, but I noticed a difference to the pedal feel. I moved to Pagid as others have said and was happy. Took around 11 months for the same to happen to it. Currently I use Millers 5.1 and it's superior in every way. I won't be swapping to another. My fluids get changed on a 12 month(ish) cycle.

As to asbestos pads. I'd say the ones I used were almost as good as the 1144's. Perhaps age had impacted their performance? I did also get them to fade at Donnington and I found as they were thin you could make them fade on the road.

I'd only recommend 1144's now to others. You may be happy with your Green Stuff, some people are. If you swapped to 1144's you'd probably like them more. According to that tool I should be using YellowStuff... Apparently even OrangeStuff if I go on track. Either way, the Green Stuff aren't "cheap pads" and won't cause you to crash. You'll still be able to lock your wheels up with them if needed.

I'll see how I  go on the green stuff then if rubbish change again. But Ill report back.

[Clive]

Quoted from Matt306

Will these fit standard calipers? I have seen solid grooved discs.

No, not sure you can fit vented discs with type 12 or 14 calipers. You can git larger brakes, but the std ones should be fine.As a tip, how about removing your dust shields. You need to replace them with a washer to keep the calipers in the correct position, but removal should help the discs/brakes cool.

As to lung disease, the really high risks occur when exposed to asbestos/dusts/feathers etc AND you smoke. Risk increases hugely. IIRC (it was 39 years ago) tenfold or more.

[Fixer6]

I have had EBC green stuff pads for many years, on the second set. Never had a problem "coming off of Dartmoor" but I did once experience a severe fade at the bottom of Porlock Hill. Not the Alps but pretty steep.

[JohnD]

Vented discs help keep your brakes cool and prevent fade.   Absolutely no doubt of that.  Many moderns are fitted with them as standard.

What do grooved or drilled discs do?    They are alleged to "release gasses" a highly dubious claim, as proper 'bedding in' should expel any residual solvents etc. and thereafter pads don't produce gas or vapour.    They are also alleged to scrape the pads clear of any metallic deposits by the action of the leading edge of the groove, which implies accelerated wear of both pad and disc.
Finally, drilling in particular weakens the disc, making it prone to cracking around each hole.  
None of these properties should commend grooved/drilled discs to anyone, especially one who is cost conscious.

John

[Matt306]

Greenstuff been in for a few day and with the standard steel disc definite upgrade ...

[glang]

Thats pretty good going as they'll probably take a few miles to bed in completely - what has improved, bite, overall braking etc?

[JohnD]

I wish people wouldn't replace some defective part with new, and then extol that particular brand and type of new part, ignoring the possibility that the old was a bit dysfunctional.
Obviously it's never possible to do double blind cross-over trials, to avoid bias, but it is possible, for instance, to test brakes.
Your MoT station for instance.

But I'm just biased!
John

[yorkshire_spam]

Out of curiosity, do greenstuff require a bedding in/curing process like the M1144 do? I sometimes wonder if the varied opinions of M1144 might (in part) be down to people not following the correct procedure.

[Jonny-Jimbo]

In Street use situations …
Bedding in when the red EBC surface coating (marked on the pads as Brake In) is applied.
Best procedure is to drive gently avoiding harsh braking unless in an emergency for first 100 miles. In the second 100 miles (up to 200) you can use gently increasing brake pressures when using the brakes.
Only after 200 miles urban driving (not 200 miles on a freeway where brakes are almost unused) should you attempt to apply heavy load and heat to the brakes. To do this final bedding on a QUIET ROAD in safe traffic apply the brakes and slow from 60 to 10 MPH five times in a row. Then drive slowly for a few minutes if safe to do so to allow the brakes to cool. Try to avoid coming to a rest whilst the brakes are heated.
A smell may be noticed from the warm brakes, this is normal. Repeat this procedure a second time after the brakes have TOTALLY cooled down. EBC pads get better with miles. Even after this bed in procedure it can take up to 1500 miles before the pads are at their best. In the meantime the pads will be good and safe but true potential not realised. EBC makes performance pads that last, they do not bed in within 5 minutes driving. Noises will be more likely during the first 1000-1500 miles use whilst this chemical bedding takes place.
NEVER attempt to sand or scotchbrite brake pads to assist it bedding in or noise reduction,this will only make things worse by taking the pads “Off-Flat” and require hundreds of miles driving to seat them again during which time the brakes will feel very dull. The only way to seat pads is against the rotor they will be used on and by following our bedding recommendation.

[Matt306]

I've done near enough 100 miles now and feel better bite than el cheapo pads.


Johnd I hear what you are saying... These are fine for my use 60-70mph on roads with decent brake by gap.

[JohnD]

JJ,
was that the EBC recommendations on 'bedding in'?
I'm surprised they need such delay.  Does seem almost unsafe that new pads are not fully effective for 200 miles or more!
Most pads can be done immediately, by that process or similar.  It's not a physical thing, conforming their faces to the shape of the disc.   The objective is to condition the pads by heating them to the highest temp they will face, without fading them.  

John

[glang]

Does anyone know what happens in the long term if this recommended procedure isnt followed?

[JohnD]

Nothing, except they may never be optimal.

This page offers a further reasosn for 'bedding in'.  They're the experts.
http://stoptech.com/technical-.....res/brake-pad-bed-in

Jhn

[Beans]

Quoted from yorkshire_spam

Out of curiosity, do greenstuff require a bedding in/curing process like the M1144 do? I sometimes wonder if the varied opinions of M1144 might (in part) be down to people not following the correct procedure.

All pads need bedding in properly.
The pads I have fitted over the years all came with bedding-in-instructions.

Never had had issues with Green Stuff or Mintex M1144 (or the M171 I currently have on one of the cars)
Only problems with pads so far was when I fitted some pads from a general brand (forgot its name)
After two trips into the Alps they were completely glazed (might be my driving style  )