2020 RBRR: Any Changes that should be implemented for the event?

[kin74]

I'm a newbie and I can't compare with previous RBRRs but:

1. Please no more Turwestone, finding it and then driving back to Knebworth after 48 hours, with the sun light already gone an the traffic was awful.

2. I see the point of people suggesting to skip the stop in Dartmoor, a great scenery but a slow drive with no alternatives for latecomers. Personally I'd keep Bude and maybe find another way to Pimperne.

3. No complaints about number of cars, overcrowding was never an issue apart in Land's End.

4. We skipped the breakfast in LE due to the queue and had an additional stop at a Costa coffe in Penzance, in a shopping area (but still quite on early Sunday morning) with a parking place and a fuel station, 20 minutes from LE. Could it be a reasonable control stop?

5. I totally understand why Seaview was included in every RBRR, please go on with them because they're awesome!

6. Sweeping service sounds good to me, I know someone won't like it but I suspect they're the same guys who complained for satnavs and three-ppl-teams. I understand their will to keep the spirit of the event as much untouched as possible but it's hard to not keep up with the times.

7. I agree that motorway legs are boring but easy to drive and really helpful when late or tired, the one from Monmouth to Whitehouse just saved our RBRR.

Apart from what written above, I'm totally grateful to CT, Tim Bancroft and all the RBRR crew for the amazing work they did!

[Greta]

I'd meant to acquaint myself with more of the other Spitfires running - so in the event of a breakdown the voice on the other end of the frantic "can I cadge your ??" phone call would at least be known. Despite the small chassis whatsapp group this didn't happen.

Would paddocking similar cars at the pre start help in this? Old & small engined cars could perhaps then be started sooner and run loosely in a pack - being overtaken - on the open road by larger more powerful beasts eating up the miles. 

From a social point of view there perhaps could also be phased restarts after the principle halts - again giving time to slower crews to "catch up" - get back in the running amongst their peers. This needn't be too rigid - but might help encourage interest from older / smaller entrants - perhaps deterred by the thought of not being able to keep up.

I felt really sorry for the Standard 10 being held towards the rear for making the start in the nick of time!

[Tim Bancroft]

Some great comments and as Steve B states, experienced crews are more or less self sufficient on the event. Taking parts and tools will always be a compromise, obviously a GT6 cannot hold the same as Saloon, so common sense is needed.

The advice notes that we send out will be reviewed for the next RBRR and made more comprehensive. We have previously sent these out when crews have entered, will do that next time.

We used to send the smaller engine'd cars out first when we used The Plough, so that will be done next time. The Std 10 was at the start of queue no. 3 or 4 at Knebworth. The last car to leave was, Mark and Jo McLean in their white Dolomite Sprint, they are very experienced RBRR'ers, so we felt that they could cope, they did.

I have always thought the most valuable commodity to undertake the RBRR was Common Sense, nothing in the last 20 years has made me change that view. 

Please keep those RBRR thoughts coming, very appreciated by the org. team.

[Jdowson]

As a 'newbie' for this year, I thought the event lived up to expectations. We thoroughly enjoyed it. Yes we nearly came to grief when our rear lights failed and we had to do a temporary rewire. This lost us an hour or more and the sweeper car stopped for us. We got going again and didn't see the sweeper again, but we were aware we were running late and this did put the pressure on a bit. By Carter Bar,  we knew we had cars behind us, by Knockhill we were starting to pull back some time, but only a little. At JOG, the 2hr stop allowed us to pull back time with a shorter stop. We still had time for breakfast, but left after an hour. We also took a slightly shorter route back to Skiach to make up time and give us a more relaxed drive. We had time for a coffee and refuel before arriving at the checkpoint about on time. We hadn't realised that the more experienced crews were arriving early at most checkpoints and then having a rest whilst waiting for the cp to open, we tried to aim for earliest arrival time, which if we had problems pushed us back. Having said that we were fortunate not to have any more mechanical or electrical problems. Preparation for the event, I think was key to this, I had spent 11months working on the car. The last thing I wanted was for the car to break down. If anything might be suspect on such a long event, it was checked, serviced or replaced. Our problems were more navigational, due to tiredness, believing the satnav which sometimes conflicted with the route instructions late at night, but this is a learning experience for ourselves, don't always trust the satnav. Time was lost waiting for breakfast at Lands end, perhaps a longer time allowance is needed here, also the traffic back across towards the end. We also got lost trying to find the correct entrance to Knebworth, again the satnav and tiredness creeping in. We did get there in the end, albeit 1 1/2 hrs late, but we did get there and the sense of achievement was immense, emotional even. 

Would I change anything? Probably not a lot. Some timings maybe (lands end), but overall the event worked. A credit to all the organisers. If it was too easy, it wouldn't be the same challenge, it wouldn't be the RBRR and the sense of achievement wouldn't be as great, it would just be another car event. I learned of this event over 20 years ago. It took this long to build up courage to do it. Finally we did it.

[thescrapman]

A few years ago it was broken rocker shafts that was an issue, don't think that has happened recently.

another time wheel bearings seemed to fail.

Alternators always seem to feature.

 

[Rutty]

I heard a rumour that shuttleworth is being considered for the start/finish next time does anyone know if that is correct? If its not correct it would be worth considering and it would give a better route on the last section.

The changes that would be nice to see are More marshals at the first control when the cars are still all bunched together it took 30 minuets to get our road book signed and I know its been said before but we have to sort out the breakfast que at Lands End. Talk about the most inefficient method of working I have ever seen.

As for the rest of it I love it and would hate to loss Badgers Halt.

Mark

[thescrapman]

I wonder if there I see any easy / cheap way of running the controls electronically?

[Nick Jones]

Quoted from thescrapman-

I wonder if there I see any easy / cheap way of running the controls electronically?

tattoo 'em all with bar codes and scan them through - or maybe RFID ear tags...... 😛

Nick

[Clive]

There is something nice and reassuring about people signing a roadbook. Just scanning in is so bloody soul-less.

As to Lands End, although they are not exactly efficient, I do wonder if the enforced delays has a beneficial effect on the teams. Gives them something to moan about, longer break and so on. After all, we all like a good moan about something, and if it wasn't LE what would it be😛

[Howard]

Quoted from Rutty-

I heard a rumour that shuttleworth is being considered for the start/finish next time does anyone know if that is correct? If its not correct it would be worth considering and it would give a better route on the last section.

Great location for me since its 10 miles from home, but nearest accommodation with plenty of rooms is the Holiday Inn at Sandy, otherwise its Bedford / St Neots for Travel lodge/Premier inn which are 10/15 miles away. 

Regarding Badgers Holt could the stops be divided between official Control Points and recommended stops? We effectively had this at Perth Tesco this year, while not an official control point it was used by many entrants. Badger's Holt could then remain as a recommended stop, but if it is not official control it could be bypassed by late runners.

 

[Clive]

Good point re accommodation. 

I think the number of people booking into nearby hotels has grown enormously. So a source of "sensibly priced" hotel rooms is essential. And somewhere where there is a assortment of food outlets close by.

[RobPearce]

Quoted from Jdowson-

We hadn't realised that the more experienced crews were arriving early at most checkpoints and then having a rest whilst waiting for the cp to open, we tried to aim for earliest arrival time, which if we had problems pushed us back.

As one of the more experienced drivers, I can say that we made no effort to arrive early. We just drove. Up until Skiach2 we did find ourselves generally being slightly ahead of the game but not intentionally - it was simply that the early stretches were "unstressed" for timings (and we'd been fairly early at Knebworth so started within the first quarter of the field). After Sterling we dropped back; again, not because we changed anything - we were still "just driving" - but the timings tightened up a bit. By the end (with a couple of Satnag fails) we were two hours past LTA.

[Tim Bancroft]

Knebworth has one very good factor, it has a Hotel within the grounds, albeit one that seems to not be able to cater for guests who require a drink!

Also of course, the cars parked in the grounds before the off look fantastic.

The mileage dipped below 2000 miles this time, we do need to get it above that figure, so we may look at increasing the Scottish mileage...which cannot be a bad thing.

 

[brianthesnail96]

Quoted from timbancroft61-

Knebworth has one very good factor, it has a Hotel within the grounds, albeit one that seems to not be able to cater for guests who require a drink!

Also of course, the cars parked in the grounds before the off look fantastic.

The mileage dipped below 2000 miles this time, we do need to get it above that figure, so we may look at increasing the Scottish mileage...which cannot be a bad thing.

 

Knebworth does add a (possibly misplaced) sense of grandeur to proceedings and I agree the line up at the start is ace- for both the experience and the ease of organising a large field of cars I think the ability to park the cars up like that is probably pretty important.

As for Scotland, I really enjoyed the slightly longer enforced detour via Tongue which must have added a couple of miles on at least. The usual road is brilliant but we must really upset the (admittedly very small) number of locals we meet and it is a bit dodgy with lots of blind bends and crests- the detour was a little more sane while not short changing us too much on the scenery or experience. Possibly a better bet with 130+ cars, some potentially not driving completely to the road conditions, although I'm sure not everyone would agree.

Rob's comments on timings are almost the opposite of us- we lost time up to JOG although we did have the tools out a couple of times, made it up with the long window at JOG but took the opportunity to get the tools out again at Skiach 2 (planned fluids top up mostly) meaning a sensible arrival time at Stirling, from there we made good time until LE after which the usual Sunday traffic and my insistence on an ice cream at Badgers Holt gradually put us further and further back in to the hour leading to a "just in" arrival at Knebworth.  

[Velocita Rosso]

A previous comment about `there being a long queue at Wetherby` is purely down to the arrival of runners all at the same time. There is a timing element to this checkpoint where by signing in /out is not before a set time. So the early arrivals had their book `signed` and timed and held back in number order and released at the stipulated time. The queue built up as the clock ticked away to the stipulated time ....and then two marshals time checked and recorded each book.....but for speed a rubber stamp with authorised signature was used , and everyone galloped through ....at the correct checkpoint time in the book and at the same time the early arrivals ,just picked up their book in a separate queue.It was like an assembly line on piece time. The same applied at Carter Bar, where a rubber stamp was used with the marshal signature, and this allowed passage through very speedy.

Sometimes checkpoints can be like the cash tills at Sainsbury`s whereby some will hop on one leg and move from queue to queue hoping to get through to paying quicker

A comment about having an electronic check in,is again like Sainsburys......do you want to hear the constant blip where 135 books are scanned through....or would you prefer a smiling marshal having banter and wishing you well on the event as you leave?

If I have to self scan at Sainsbury`s and the recorded voice then says `please put your items in the bagging area` ...I generally speak or shout back... `I have done`..so there is my social element to shopping.

The general consensus to this comment is.....enjoy the experience of talking to one another, enjoy the event...........and just have patience..."As the staff are here to help you" 

I know the invite was to offer up any advice on improvements or where things may have gone wrong..........but to my mind , just enter,follow the rules and the route and take the rough with the smooth

Sorry.....I can state many analogies for the case.....just enjoy it  

 

 

[richard w]

It was nice to see you and Paul at Wetherby Mike, especially as we didn't think we would be there in time. No queues though when we got there 5 minutes before closing time!

A bit of chat and banter with people you know is part of the run. Wouldn't want to lose that. 

[yorkshire_spam]

Although we only made it to Skiach this time... the event isn't broken, don't make any fundamental changes.

Yes, maybe extra marshalls at the first stop(s) could have people processed quicker.

Maybe the route needs a tweak here and there on the Sunday, maybe not.

I think Knebworth is a great place to host the start/finish. A big improvement on the Plough (although a shame to lose that historic connection)

Lands End is what it is, they know they effectively have a captive market and so have a take it or leave it attitude in terms of service. 

Sounds like breakfast service at JoG was epic as ever (was certainly our experience in 2014)

I think my only real concern about the event is that posts on social media discussing speeding and images showing road books signed before the stipulated time put the event at risk and potentially leave the club open to criticism. 

 

[Velocita Rosso]

Quoted from richard w-

It was nice to see you and Paul at Wetherby Mike, especially as we didn't think we would be there in time. No queues though when we got there 5 minutes before closing time!

A bit of chat and banter with people you know is part of the run. Wouldn't want to lose that. 

...and I would miss `batter and chantter`with such good colleagues like yourself!...its part of eventing 🙂

[Tim Bancroft]

Think the one factor to have come out of this message thread (so far) is that we need to simplify the RBRR after Bude, and try and make it easier. The main problem is the amount of traffic one encounters on a Sunday in the South West and South, maybe a day of rain would help get rid of the slowies who are daytripping? Pray for rain next time!

Any thoughts about the Welsh section...did anyone encounter Welsh Rally traffic or cars?

Love the comments about keeping the event's difficulties as it is supposed to be a challenge. Maybe we did not emphasise the difficulty of the event, touch of complacency creeping in by the organising team? 

 

[PeteStupps]

At Gledrid another entrant was telling us that the next section to Monmouth was awful, worst roads of the event and not enjoyable at all. In contrast, we thought it was ace. Completely knackering but thoroughly enjoyable twisty-turny-uppy-downy. The odd wisp of mist added some atmosphere. We did stop a couple of times to let the 'bigger boys' pass us though, on account of being dazzled (and evidently slowing them down). 

I hadn't appreciated how challenging the whole event was going to be, until talking to a few previous entrants in the week before and at the start line. Plus I had unrealistic ideas about sleeping in a Spitfire!

[RobPearce]

The road out of Newtown - apart from the roadworks at the bottom of the hill - is a nice road. In 2010 my memory of it from many years back meant I could set a good pace despite the twisty-turny. This year it felt slightly alien on the first bit - I think they're "making it safer". But I can appreciate that the Welsh roads are not to everyone's taste. We did find some of the very narrow bits nearer Monmouth to be just a bit too much effort at that time in the morning. Which is probably why all the teams around us took a shortcut...

[thescrapman]

Quoted from timbancroft61-

Any thoughts about the Welsh section...did anyone encounter Welsh Rally traffic or cars?

Love the comments about keeping the event's difficulties as it is supposed to be a challenge. Maybe we did not emphasise the difficulty of the event, touch of complacency creeping in by the organising team? 

 

Rally traffic in Wales? dunno, I,was asleep for most of it.. :-)

Not easier Sunday, just less complicated perhaps?

I still think we need some sort of electronic processing, would allow proper control of timings if nothing else.

[Howard]

I still think we need some sort of electronic processing, would allow proper control of timings if nothing else.

That's dead easy - just increase the average speeds and require entrants to provide a copy of the speeding prosecutions as proof. 😉😉😉

[Tim Bancroft]

I have three fave sections of the event:

Seaview Hotel: JOG to Skiach

Fort William to Stirling

Gledrid to Monmouth

Bit amazed someone told Pete Stupple that the Welsh section was not good, I bl**dy love it!

 

[DGF]

whilst ,in some ways i would agree. that a sweeper/recovery [call it what you like] car could be seen as going against the spirit of of the event..are we forgetting that the origin of the event was , for the triumph motor company to prove how reliable  their NEW cars were

these cars are no longer new and a bit of a helping hand shouldn't be dismissed..whether it's from a fellow participant or a couple of nerfherders in a modern ,sometimes a pair of fresh eyes can spot an easy solution to what seems an unfixable one

a couple of things i did notice though...one car carrying way too many tools..more than they could hope to use ..and one car was def lacking a bit or pre event prep [  i know mine wasn't there due to a failing new part]

 

i think..out of the 9 or 10 cars we helped 3 or 4 ended up being recovered  

as for the route ...the sunday pm def needs tidying as long as the cake fest stays