EFI GT6

[Deleted User]

lagerzok wrote:

3/8 I think but I would be taking said pump to the hose shop and checking

Thanks Andy
Good on you having the time to reply to me mate ;)


Tim you can have your thread back now I'll just ring my bell and shout unclean and move on.

[WIMPUS]

339 wrote:

here we go!  Valve mounted on bulkhead. This would suit my setup perfectly.  Anyone got any info

I see that you have 2 relais for the headlights , how does is work ?
is it a relais for low beam and a relais for hi beam ?


Kind regards wim

[TimW]

4526 wrote:

I see that you have 2 relais for the headlights , how does is work ?
is it a relais for low beam and a relais for hi beam ?


Kind regards wim

I don't have any relays for my headlights

[TimW]

getting close now!  Pics will be uploaded tonight.  I have completed the wiring loom and just need to connect it all to the relay board then make the loom from relay board to ecu.  I can then connect the laptop and see if i can communicate with the ecu.  configure the sensors, turn on the fuel pumps and go for a start!!  I will try and video my starting efforts and post on youtube.

GETTING EXCITED NOW!!! 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

[Deleted User]

339 wrote:

getting close now!  Pics will be uploaded tonight.  I have completed the wiring loom and just need to connect it all to the relay board then make the loom from relay board to ecu.  I can then connect the laptop and see if i can communicate with the ecu.  configure the sensors, turn on the fuel pumps and go for a start!!  I will try and video my starting efforts and post on youtube.

GETTING EXCITED NOW!!! 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

I wait with fingers crossed mate

[TimW]

couple of pics as promised.  I will tidy the wiring once it's all connected

[TimW]

one more of the bulkhead.  Still very grubby from the 10 Countries Run so it will get a clean before the other bulkhead items are installed 8) 8)

[andy thompson]

339 wrote:

getting close now!  Pics will be uploaded tonight.  I have completed the wiring loom and just need to connect it all to the relay board then make the loom from relay board to ecu.  I can then connect the laptop and see if i can communicate with the ecu.  configure the sensors, turn on the fuel pumps and go for a start!!  I will try and video my starting efforts and post on youtube.

GETTING EXCITED NOW!!! 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

First time you get the fuel pumps on I'd be checking carefully for leaks with no ignition on or cranking - you don't want to video your pride and joy going up in flames.

[TimW]

lagerzok wrote:

First time you get the fuel pumps on I'd be checking carefully for leaks with no ignition on or cranking - you don't want to video your pride and joy going up in flames.

Good call Andy but Nick Jones beat you to it!! 8) 8)

[James]

To give you something to aim for — mine fired up first time :)

(after checking for leaks!)

[Nick Jones]

Vitesse fired up first time (and went straight to 3000 rpm due to a small air leak).  That was on injection only.  When I converted the ignition a year or so later it was more a case of firing the air-filter around the garage until I got the plug-leads in the right order  :B

PI also fired up first time - but I'd already tested the ignition setup with the PI gear still in place.

Nick

[Deleted User]

Well any news?

[Royboy66]

Well, Ive not seen anythong ON the News !!   ;D  so, nothing Burnt I reckon  ;).

I was at Tims yesterday, and pics dont realy do it justice!!   Its a Very nice Job he doing !   :)

[Nick Jones]

Just looking at the pics properly for the first time.  Got some comments (intended to be constructive!):

The breather pipe needs to be connected to the atmospheric side of the throttle body.  Where it is, you'll be pulling air straight from the engine at a fair old rate.

I'm slightly foxed by your fuel feed arrangements (maybe just because I can't see the whole story?).  The "usual" method is to connect the fuel supply from the pump to one end of the fuel rail and the control port of the pressure regulator to the other end.  The outlet of the regulator returns to tank or swirl pot.  There is also usually a vacuum connection to the regulator to allow it to reference to manifold pressure.  You may have all this......?

You still have your distributor in place and no sign of EDIS?  This is surely intentional to keep things simpler while you get the hang of things (not a bad idea!).  However, the ECU was configured for EDIS.  You can trigger the ECU from the coil -ve but there are couple of checks that should be made on the ECU hardware and probably a simple config change on the software.  I wish I could remember what they are........  :B.  Let me know if you are planning to run without EDIS and I'll do some homework.........

The idle control valve you have looks like one intended for PWM control rather than straight on-off one.  It'll probably do some sort of job but you may find the "control" a bit coarse.  It may also get rather warm if left energised for long periods.  Most are spring closed though, so you'll probably not want it on for long periods.  To do the full PWM control you need MS2 and some add-ons I think.

I see you have an inertia cut-off switch.  This is good.  Dependent on where you have it wired in (just on fuel pump power line or on the master power line as mine is) it could be responsible for nothing working if it's in the tripped position.  Don't ask how I know that - I'm sure you can guess!

Getting all the boxes to talk can be a bit of a trial as not all of the USB/serial adapters work and sometimes there are some comms settings that need changing.  Which software are you using, Megatune or Tuner Studio?  

Cheers

Nick

[TimW]

Nick_Jones wrote:

Just looking at the pics properly for the first time.  Got some comments (intended to be constructive!):

The breather pipe needs to be connected to the atmospheric side of the throttle body.  Where it is, you'll be pulling air straight from the engine at a fair old rate.

I'm slightly foxed by your fuel feed arrangements (maybe just because I can't see the whole story?).  The "usual" method is to connect the fuel supply from the pump to one end of the fuel rail and the control port of the pressure regulator to the other end.  The outlet of the regulator returns to tank or swirl pot.  There is also usually a vacuum connection to the regulator to allow it to reference to manifold pressure.  You may have all this......?

You still have your distributor in place and no sign of EDIS?  This is surely intentional to keep things simpler while you get the hang of things (not a bad idea!).  However, the ECU was configured for EDIS.  You can trigger the ECU from the coil -ve but there are couple of checks that should be made on the ECU hardware and probably a simple config change on the software.  I wish I could remember what they are........  :B.  Let me know if you are planning to run without EDIS and I'll do some homework.........

The idle control valve you have looks like one intended for PWM control rather than straight on-off one.  It'll probably do some sort of job but you may find the "control" a bit coarse.  It may also get rather warm if left energised for long periods.  Most are spring closed though, so you'll probably not want it on for long periods.  To do the full PWM control you need MS2 and some add-ons I think.

I see you have an inertia cut-off switch.  This is good.  Dependent on where you have it wired in (just on fuel pump power line or on the master power line as mine is) it could be responsible for nothing working if it's in the tripped position.  Don't ask how I know that - I'm sure you can guess!

Getting all the boxes to talk can be a bit of a trial as not all of the USB/serial adapters work and sometimes there are some comms settings that need changing.  Which software are you using, Megatune or Tuner Studio?  

Cheers

Nick

Nick

OK with the breather i will try and find a way of addressing this. Can you tell me why it's ok to run the breather to the manifold on Carbs??

Fueling.  I have connected the flow from the pump to the front of the fuel rail then if you look at the passenger bulkhead you will see a very blue fuel regulator that is connected to the return line and then onto the swirl pot.  This regulator has a vac takeoff.

this is the sort of valve i have but off an astra. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VOLVO-850-S70-V70-C70-10v-IDLE-CONTROL-VALVE-0280140516-/320809042727?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4ab1b58327#ht_500wt_969

If it's not suitable then what about this one?http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E24-635-CSi-E28-E23-IDLE-CONTROL-VALVE-/310363884681?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4843210c89#ht_787wt_952

The cut off switch is wired to both the low pressure lifter fuel pump and the MS relay board so it will shut down the ecu and both fuel pumps.

Im using megatune  because thats what you gave me on the usb stick when you built the ecu ;) ;)

Since talking to you on the phone tonight i can confirm the pump relay is clicking on and off for 2 sec with ignition on and i have had limited success connecting to the ecu with the laptop.  The megatune goes crazy when i connect to laptop so i don't think the cable is a good one.  I've now ordered a "proper" one off ebay for £10

I was planning to run with the dizzy first but if you think it's going to cause prolems then i can easily throw the EDIS on ;D

PS.  You may regret putting your phone number on the ECU build notes ;) ;) 8)

Thanks for the help

[TimW]

royboy66 wrote:

Well, Ive not seen anythong ON the News !!   ;D  so, nothing Burnt I reckon  ;).

I was at Tims yesterday, and pics dont realy do it justice!!   Its a Very nice Job he doing !   :)

Well thanks mate 8) 8)

[Nick Jones]

The second ebay listing you show is the same simple electro-mechanical device that I use on both of mine.  They have no ECU connection - just 12v ignition controlled supply.  They come with slightly different characteristics dependent on the donor vehicle but don't seem to vary enormously.  The one on the Vitesse came from a 1600 Golf GTi mk1 and is perfect for the Vitesse.  The PI one was from an early K-jet Volvo 240.  It seems to work pretty well too - maybe closes just a little quick - but my warm-up tuning is still a bit off so not quite sure.  For a tenner I'd be very tempted to try that.  I think that other valve you have probably has quite a big opening as it's designed to have it's plunger "hover" by feeding it power in high frequency pulses (Pulse width modulation/PWM).  Lots of pulses and it's nearly fully open, fewer and it closes down.  Modern OEM ECUs (from late 80s early 90s on) often use this to actively control idle speed to preset rpm at all engine temperatures. As you'll only be able to open or close it, you'll probably find it gives a very fast idle when open, which then drops off to nothing when closed.

Breather:  I can only assume that on the carbs it was connected to a port on the atmospheric side of the throttle butterflies or via very small orifices.  The problem with the arrangement you have now is that a direct 1/2" connection from full manifold vacuum to the rocker cover will flow alot of air and the manifold vacuum will be trying to pull air through all the oil seals, gaskets etc.  You probably won't be able to control the idle speed because too much air will find it's way in and even if you engine is leak-tight enough to hold idle vacuum (unlikely!) you don't want that much vac in the crankcase.

Fuel pipe arrangement sounds ok.

Cut-off switch arrangement sounds good and as the relays are clicking it seems that you have a simple comms problem.  MT going nuts supports that theory also.  

As regards the engine position sensing, I suggest you do need to use the EDIS partly at least.  This is because in order to make the ECU accept the low powered signal from the EDIS system, several components in the engine position ("tacho") input stage are bypassed and connecting it directly to the coil negative as it is will almost certainly fry something.  Minimum requirements are the trigger wheel, VR sensor and EDIS itself.   You need to wire the VR sensor to the EDIS (screened cable recommended), get power and earth to the EDIS and connect the PIP signal to the ECU.
You don't need to connect the coil pack if you don't want to and can still use the original ignition to run the engine.

Megatune is fine.  I used it until the PI conversion, when for some reason I decided to try Tuner Studio giving myself another thing to learn.....  It does do the self-tune (on the paid for version only I think) better, but that's only useful when you have a wideband O2 sensor and MS2 with AFR target tables.  (Don't think this is possible in MS1 even with the extra code you have).

You can ring me and I'll try to help..... Trouble is..... I forget stuff.  I can usually remember approximately where to look it up though  :B

Cheers

Nick

[James]

I think the type of idle valve you have is fine — it's an on/off type — based on looks.

You need to have EDIS as that's what's what you're using to sense the crank signal.

Forget about MegaTune and ditch it — TunerStudio is the way to go. You will want to use the VEAL feature to tune your car — it saves so much time. If you cannot use VEAL with an MS1 then upgrade it to MS2! Worth every penny. You also need to register TunderStudio for this.

[andy thompson]

jcarruthers wrote:

To give you something to aim for — mine fired up first time :)

(after checking for leaks!)

Mine kind of fired up first time but was FULL rich so fouled its plugs and then died - turned out to be a USB serial port issue and when I fired it up without the laptop attached it ran OK! To start with I had to find an old laptop with a serial port to get it tuned but now have a newer laptop and serial adaptor which seems stable.

[James]

To be fair mine wasn't really untested— it was running ignition and everything else — but it fired up straight away when I switched over to injection.

I had a fun time getting the ignition leads in the right order when I switched from MegaJolt to MegaSquirt ignition only.

[TimW]

So can anyone give the game away with regards to plug lead order??  My coil is from a mondeo and has the connectors listed 1-6 on the coil itself.

[Nick Jones]

Ignore the numbers on the coil pack - V6 firing order is different!

Pic below shows how they go (provided you wire the primaries as per the EDIS diagram!).  You can swap the pairs around as they fire simultaneously.  I noticed belatedly that if I'd turned the coilpack through 90º I could have had the front three cylinders going from the left hand side and the back three from the right......  Would probably have looked too tidy to be right..... :P

Nick

[Deleted User]

339 wrote:

So can anyone give the game away with regards to plug lead order??  My coil is from a mondeo and has the connectors listed 1-6 on the coil itself.

is the coil pack not numbered 1-6?

I know the 4 cylinder pack is numbered?

[TimW]

bobyspit wrote:

is the coil pack not numbered 1-6?

I know the 4 cylinder pack is numbered?

Yes Rob but as Nick points out the V6 has a different firing order to the straight 6 Triumph lump.

[Royboy66]

This off Andre's site  ;)