Saltddirk Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 hullo, The engine of our Mk2 Spit did not survive the 10CR :( We have it now dismantled to show all the horrors: Cam lobes worn, followers (new before the 10CR) ready for junk, Piston with a chunk missing and one cracked..... Amazing that we still managed to get to Home The block is relatively un-damaged as seems the crank. The block is now with the engine workshop for measurements and eventually a re-bore ( +40 already) It would seem that the engine is a toledo engine with a DG prefix, HE suffix. Would anybody know if the principal dimensions to give to the workshop are the same as a Spitfire 1300 engine or better even have a scan of the pages from the workshop manual BR Dirk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPearce Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 The Toledo engine is the same as a MkIV Spitfire (large bearing). Sadly my Toledo WSM seems to be lacking any but the most generic dimension data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paudman Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Quoted from Saltddirk- The block is now with the engine workshop for measurements and eventually a re-bore ( +40 already) Can I be cheeky and ask what they're charging? I'm getting very high prices for a Herald block that requires little work, so I'd be interested to know what other companies ask for boring cylinders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Dirk is in Belgium.... But oddly I was phoning about just yesterday, seems there is a fixed price for a rebore around Sussex at £40 a pot plus vat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltddirk Posted January 11, 2020 Author Share Posted January 11, 2020 @rob, Thanks, i'll look for a mk 4 WSM then @colin and Clive 40 gbp a pot is indeed what i expect to pay. The situation is slightly different here in Belgium, we do not have that many workshops willing to do classic car engine work except if you pay the dreaded TR tax on top, but the shop i'm using is a one man shop nearing retirement and he is very reasonable in his prices. Dirk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve AKA vitessesteve Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Dirk I have sent you a link to a selection of Spitfire manuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltddirk Posted January 11, 2020 Author Share Posted January 11, 2020 thanks Steve, Very welcome! BR Dirk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Hunt Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 I looked through Steve's manuals for you Dirk when I saw your reply #4 but couldn't see one for the Toledo or the Mk IV Spitfire with the same 1296cc engine, maybe I missed it. As Rob mentions, you are looking for details of the later Mk IV engine with the enlarged big end bearings, I do not know at what commission/engine number the change was made. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltddirk Posted January 12, 2020 Author Share Posted January 12, 2020 Thanks Tim, I have all the manuals from Steve to go through, This is what i have found so far in the HAynes manual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltddirk Posted January 12, 2020 Author Share Posted January 12, 2020 From the BL manual for the Mk4 it would seem that they recommend only a +20 overbore for the cylinders,....? I believe mine is a +40 already or am I seeing this wrong. The only changes in the production line seem to have happened at Engine nr 25000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 There is no particular reason why you shouldn't run at +0.040" but I would advise checking the oversizes of piston available before going any bigger. There may be +0.050" available and will probably be +0.060" but that's as big as you ever want to go and if you're building a little screamer of an engine you might not want to go any bigger than you already have at +0.040". That will, of course, require a replacement block unless you're planning on trying to replace the liners which I don't recommend. A good used std or up to +0.020" block would be best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 PS. There is a useful section on the Canley Classics website where it lists all the engine prefixes and says which are equivalent to which others ref crank journal sizes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltddirk Posted January 12, 2020 Author Share Posted January 12, 2020 thanks Dale, I'll check Canleys It would seem that this engine is already at 040, and i was not planning to go any further, as you say it is not really recommendable to put liners in, IMO the strenght is gone from the block, and a replacement block would be the cheaper option.... First waiting from the verdict from the workshop, lets hope it's only needing a hone.... D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteStupps Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Dirk how many miles had you done on the engine, just out of interest? Were there some pictures on your first post? I can just see some little image icons, but no actual images. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltddirk Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 Hello Pete, I have done about 10000 miles max with the engine, 2 10CR's plus a trip to scotland and a few local outings. Rob (the previous owner) I'm not sure how much he has done with the engine, guess not more than 10000 himself. I'll try to repost the pictures Dirk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltddirk Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 Hello Pete, I have done about 10000 miles max with the engine, 2 10CR's plus a trip to scotland and a few local outings. Rob (the previous owner) I'm not sure how much he has done with the engine, guess not more than 10000 himself. I'll try to repost the pictures Dirk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltddirk Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 some more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6DavidMK1 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Think that engine has done a lot more miles than you think!! 😬 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteStupps Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Yikes! Those cam followers look like they've been toasted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltddirk Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 those camfollowers were new before the 10CR You never know how much mileage you had with a second hand engine, Not that I did not trust Bob, I just can't remember what he said. Dirk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky_spit Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Before my 1500 engine was rebuilt it had a cam follower looking like that, but worse, matched to a cam lobe that was almost non-existent. It's difficult to know whether the cause is due to the follower? Or the cam? Or poor oil distribution? What are your thoughts on the cause of all that damage to pistons/cam/followers/etc Dirk? What is the crank like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltddirk Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 Crank and bearings are good, only just now starting to show copper, the cylinder bores thankfully also looking fine The followers were used due to the camshaft damage, at least that's what i think. Not sure what caused the piston damage, or how long it was like this, She started using oil on the 10CR only, before that she was fine, perhaps bad quality pistons? If the budget stretches that far i'll go for forged ones this time, and a wee milder cam, To me it would seem that low oil / bad lubrication caused a lot of the damage, and the followers being blackened would support that. The old ones we took out just before the 10CR were only worn because of the cam damage but not black like these! Cheerz Dirk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 Are the cam followers that are not wrecked flat or slightly crowned? They should be flat but some suppliers (including some who really should know better!) have been sending out crowned ones. They don't last very long..... Also, some followers are just too soft to live. Pistons look like there has been overheating at some point and also some detonation (that burning around the top ring). Not geographically convenient, but I have a Herald 13/60 block, crank and rods here, free to a worthy cause. This is a small crank engine, so different to what you have (head will fit though). IIRC the bores and crank are standard size but well worn. I don't have the end plates, chain case or flywheel. Cheers Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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