RBRR Only For The Big Boys?

[Deleted User]

One thing that puzzled me while marshalling was the low amount of smaller engined cars taking part.

I looked at the entry list (not the start list) for 2010 and 2012 and the number of larger engined cars above the 2 litre capacity (and I'm counting cars close to 2000cc in this) increased from 68 to 74%.

I would have thought that in this time of recession and higher pump prices that the number of smaller engined cars would be much more but this is not the case.

Could it be that the RBRR is now thought by many to be beyond the abilities of 1296cc Spitfires, Toledos, Dolomites and smaller engined Heralds?

Judging by the entry list for this year, that may be the case.

Or maybe a smaller engined car seems to be too much trouble when trying to keep up with everyone else and yes I know the route is not compulsory but how many still battle round trying to keep to the route in the roadbook?

Or could it be that the smaller engined cars require more money spent on them to sustain 48 hours on the road and owners are reluctant to spend the money on them for one single event?

On the entry list, there were only 10 cars under 1300cc, yet look at the number of TRs, saloons and Stags.

The number of small engined cars has certainly decreased over the last few years of the RBRR.

I realise that the RBRR lends itself to large saloons and the like but do we need to do more to encourage the owners of small engined cars to enter?

This is just a thought of mine, but it does show the way the Club is moving in our premier event.

The Forum is now open for discussion.

Jim.

[GT6boy]

Is the bottom line not that larger engined cars (thirsty and expensive on fuel) are run by people who can make the case to spend the outlay?

I accept that the big slaoons are relatively cheap to purchase, but they would be carrying 3 or 4 people sharing the fuel costs?

[shedmonkey]

You cant get any sleep in a spitfire with two fat middle age blokes in it ! the 45mpg was good this year but we were both knackered and will be doing the 2014 event in a saloon!

[Deleted User]

Good point.

Backed up by the fact that there were only 4 GT6s entered too instead of the usual 7 or 8.

I've done the RBRR twice in mine and slept well despite my increasing girth.

But then, on the last one, I fitted a quieter exhaust and added more sound deadening which helped over the previous run.

Jim.

[Goody]

At first I would think the big cars are not as old as some of the small ones.  I will say that a small car can do the run as Steve and I were never late or behind.  We drove at or below the speed limit and did not waste any time at the control's and made most before they opened.   Had I planed to enter from the start I would have used my Dolomite.  As most know I was a last minuet replacement co driver.  Though we did not finish, I think we would have if a wheel had not left us.   Since I do not know any other 2L Vitesse that did the run we spent almost 400 pounds for fuel from the start to just after Lands End.  Not sure if money is the issue.   How much was the average fuel cost?   We did not have a working spedo so we could not get a MPH.   (used the sat/nav) for speed.  

[mikew]

I didn't chose my estate to do the RBRR in, it chose me! It was a good excuse to let everyone see the car, and drive it, and let everyone know that it isn't going to be a trailer queen.

It kept up fine, and we didn't generally push it, kept to 60 ish, and apart from the delay caused by the broken fan belt got to most controls within 10 minutes or so of them opening.

It was comfy and quiet, I suspect if there had been more rain it would have been a really good choice. The auto box did make some sections hard work though.

2 drivers were fine.

Next time I will probably take the TR5, bit easier in the twisty bits, and the possibility of topless motoring!

i'd do it in a spitfire given the chance, when I was younger I had a 1300 mk4 and drove thousands of miles in it as my daily driver, even my old 1360 would have been Ok

[yogi]

We had no problem keeping up at all. We arrived at many of the stops before earliest arrival time and were in the first ten cars to arrive at Lands End. Slipped down a bit Sunday afternoon as were socialising at Bude and Sixpenny Handley, but we had no problem keeping up.

And we don't have the option of overdrive on the FWD's either but if anything the 1300 engine is happier at higher revs. It won't go up hills like the bigger engined cars but we make up for that on the bends where I like to think that very few cars can keep up. I know my car's not exactly standard but the other 1300 wasn't that far behind us all the way round. But there does certainly seem to be  a shift towards the bigger cars. I shall just have to continue to show what can be done with a nice little 1300!

[MarkDeTriomphe]

yogi wrote:

...  but we make up for that on the bends where I like to think that very few cars can keep up.

Think we were one of the 'big boys' behind you on that last stretch down to LE - and can confirm that you don't hang about on the bends (unless it was the other 1300).  Unfortunately, had to let you go after a bit of heavy braking made a sound like part of the car had been ripped off - which of course it had   :-/

[yogi]

MarkDeTriomphe wrote:

Think we were one of the 'big boys' behind you on that last stretch down to LE - and can confirm that you don't hang about on the bends (unless it was the other 1300).  Unfortunately, had to let you go after a bit of heavy braking made a sound like part of the car had been ripped off - which of course it had   :-/

Yes, Tim was driving that bit and though he's a Londoner his mum has a place down there so he knows the roads rather well and was using that to his advantage! I was in the back trying to get some sleep which was fine on the A30 but I had no chance after Penzance. Nice to see someone appreciate my car though (both those driving and those following!), makes all the hard work worthwhile.

[shedmonkey]

Yogi I followed you on the A68 and can confirm your 1300 was doing fine until it got to a hill! where it would slow just enough to cause me to change down - I really needed OD  on 2nd to stay behind you in the power band on one of the hills! I must have looked like a demented yo-yo behind you!
It looked to be handling great - the spit has uprated suspension so I managed to hold on to you   ;) it was fun  think we went past you on a dual carriageway section?

Back to the debate the car had no problem keeping up -we physically found it harder work  as we did in 04 in the GT6
Come the 10CR in its present format I would always choose the Spit  but slip two full nights of driving in and I would be tempted by the saloon

[Alex]

ajp wrote:

Back to the debate the car had no problem keeping up -we physically found it harder work  as we did in 04 in the GT6
Come the 10CR in its present format I would always choose the Spit  but slip two full nights of driving in and I would be tempted by the saloon

Dont think I'm gonna like being middle aged Andy if this is what it does to you.....I think your biggest problem is a lack of reclining seats ;)
I even slept with my roof down.....Matt was driving so it was intentional ;D

[shedmonkey]

Alex wrote:

Dont think I'm gonna like being middle aged Andy if this is what it does to you.....I think your biggest problem is a lack of reclining seats ;)
I even slept with my roof down.....Matt was driving so it was intentional ;D

yep reclining seat would have cancelled out the middle agedness!

[GT6boy]

I'm just a boy with only 3 RBRR's to my name. 1x big saloon, 2x GT6.
Loved the space, handling and vibe of the saloon with its option of sleeping in relative comfort too, but the GT6 is a sublime method of transport with easily enought space to catch the required sleep and offer great levels of comfort. 2 seater car for me, given the choice.
50/50 driving is also a great bonus in my mind too. 8)

[yogi]

ajp wrote:

Yogi I followed you on the A68 and can confirm your 1300 was doing fine until it got to a hill! where it would slow just enough to cause me to change down - I really needed OD  on 2nd to stay behind you in the power band on one of the hills! I must have looked like a demented yo-yo behind you!  

Yes we were looking like a yo-yo too but for the opposite reasons. Following a TR6 up the northern end of the A9 they really weren't trying on the corners (no reason why they should if they don't want to of course) yet whenever we got to a hill (and there were plenty of them) they left me standing. Once we got to the top it'd take a couple of minutes to catch them up, then another hill would come along! took me ages to find a straightish downhill section to get get past them. Then we stopped for petrol in Wick and they trundled past just as we were leaving but that last stretch to JoG is nice and straight, so no problems there.

[Wilfrid]

Absolutely no reason why the smaller engined Triumphs shouldn't successfully complete the RBRR
provided the crews don't spend more than the recommended time at stops and keep within the one hour window shown in the road book between the earliest and latest times of arrival. After all, 948 Heralds have done it.

Wilfrid (done it 14 times including in a 1300!

[SteveJP]

My first RBRR I completed in 2010 was in my Spitfire 1500 which was great fun although even with MX5 seats fitted I found very difficult to sleep in. This year I used my Stag which was a completely different experience from the driving point of view, I still didn't sleep much until we got near Cornwall, but that's me. My Co-driver had no problems dropping off in both cars.  In part I agree it is easier to do the RBRR in a bigger car, but its a lot more fun in the small ones especially around Scotland and Wales. The benefit of the Stag was the way it just easily ate up the long boring stretches of motorway/dual carriageway. The disadvantage was the fuel consumption!

At the end of the day, what does it matter which type of car is used as long as its a Triumph. The important thing is to make sure your car (and drivers) are prepared for the journey as far as possible to minimise the potential for breakdowns. This is after all a Reliability Run for both car and drivers 8)

[heraldhabitat]

I did it 5 times in a standardish Courier Van had had no problems once in a herald estate which broke, the first time I used a bigger car was when another herald estate's new halfshaft failed and we rushed back to pick up a 2000 estate that I just bought, checked the oil and water, and went for it, 25 year old tyres and all, apart from the starter playing up, no issues.
It's me thats cracking up I need a bit more support than herald seats can provide and I really like driving MOE, she did around 28mpg in my experience thats not much less than a 13/60.

[CharliesStag]

When I spoke to a known specialist on here who had done the RBRR a couple of times he did comment on the fact that it is very hard to do with 2 people and that having a 3rd person on board makes all the difference.

I may do it one year.  As much as I would like to take the Stag, the fuel consumption would be a factor. But between 3 people... Plus it would probably work out cheaper than buy a small engines Dolly and making it reliable and testing it for it (the devil you know and all that) :).

[James]

It's perfectly easy with two people— you just have to be a bit more strict with getting rest and can be slightly lonely when you're on your own driving.

Three made it a bit boring to be honest— I think my brain switched off and I felt more tired as I knew there was someone else. Less adrenalin maybe?

[thescrapman]

I don't think a 948 has attempted to tackle the modern higher mileage RBRR routes. They were doing it when it was maximum use of main roads.

Not to say it couldn't still be done, the Atlas nearly did it, and that can't be as fast as a 948 Herald.

Cheers

Colin

[Slimboyfat]

thescrapman wrote:

I don't think a 948 has attempted to tackle the modern higher mileage RBRR routes. They were doing it when it was maximum use of main roads.

Not to say it couldn't still be done, the Atlas nearly did it, and that can't be as fast as a 948 Herald.

Cheers

Colin

If an Atlas can 'nearly do it' then it should be a breeze in any other car.

Having done the run in all the big engined Triumphs over the years (TR5, V8 saloon, Stag, Chicane) I was finding the RBRR less of a challenge. Thats why my entries have had progressively smaller engines as time has gone on.

Still up for that Triumph Tina combination Jase?

[Slimboyfat]

thescrapman wrote:

the Atlas nearly did it, and that can't be as fast as a 948 Herald.

Cheers

Colin

Actually we have tested that. We took the Atlas, and one of our 948 Heralds to Duxford a few years ago. The wife drove the Herald, and I was piloting the Atlast.

In strictly defined test conditions (one passenger each, similiar fuel load, and at least 25 miles of clear'ish A14) we dualed.

As it turned out they had similiar top ends, with the Herald a couple of miles an hour faster on the straight and level, but with the Atlast able to catch it on the hills.

I have never laughed so much whilst driving in my life, a great day.

[Slimboyfat]

thescrapman wrote:

the Atlas nearly did it, and that can't be as fast as a 948 Herald.

Cheers

Colin

Actually we have tested that. We took the Atlas, and one of our 948 Heralds to Duxford a few years ago. The wife drove the Herald, and I was piloting the Atlast.

In strictly defined test conditions (one passenger each, similiar fuel load, and at least 25 miles of clear'ish A14) we dualed.

As it turned out they had similiar top ends, with the Herald a couple of miles an hour faster on the straight and level, but with the Atlast able to catch it on the hills.

I have never laughed so much whilst driving in my life, a great day.

[Dannyb]

This was my first RBRR and had no problem in my Spit 1500.
I found using a pillow with earplugs and the seat reclined we managed to get some good power naps.
Needed to keep your head facing forward because soon as you put an ear to the pillow you would get all the rear drive train noise.
With a few cans of Redbull I cannot remember feeling I was going to nod off anytime.
I did feel shattered for a week after though.
Can't wait for the next one.

[SteveJP]

4666 wrote:

When I spoke to a known specialist on here who had done the RBRR a couple of times he did comment on the fact that it is very hard to do with 2 people and that having a 3rd person on board makes all the difference.

I may do it one year.  As much as I would like to take the Stag, the fuel consumption would be a factor. But between 3 people... Plus it would probably work out cheaper than buy a small engines Dolly and making it reliable and testing it for it (the devil you know and all that) :).

I wouldn't say its 'very' hard, just challenging with two people :)

I see you have the ZF conversion on your Stag, why is fuel consumption an issue? ;D ;D
I did it with a BW65 gearbox and averaged just under 25mpg, split between two of us that wasn't too bad.

Why not try the 10CR first, a little bit less frenetic and you get to stay in some hotels :) :) Although you still have to cover around 2000 miles on the continent so if fuel is an issue to you ..........