Nick Jones Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I had always understood that all Herald and Spitfires had a "quick rack" with 7 tooth pinion and with the Vitesse and GT6 having a 6 tooth pinion.However, today I dismantled the rack recently taken from a 948 Herald in a breakers to find a 6 tooth pinion. A disappointment as I'd been planning to "quicken" the rack in my PI with it.The Herald seemed mostly original and fairly low mileage with the rack looking as old and disreputable as the rest. With best part of 50 years history it could have been changed before I guess - or were they different to begin with?CheersNick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I went though my stash of a dozen or so racks a couple of months ago, looking for a "quick" ratio for the Sprint. They were all the same bar one from a 1300 fwd (if my labelling was correct!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebird Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 NickAccording to Canley's blurb, you are correct. Spit, Herald & Vit 1600 have 7 teeth & GT6 and the 2.0 Vits have 6.Glen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 hmmm that makes most of my stash likely to be 7 tooth then. wonder if the quicker one is actually a 8 or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 As I understand it, the majority of Triumphs are 6 tooth. GT6, Vitesse, non PAS saloons, Dolomites all with 6. Just Spit and Herald with 7, hadn't considered the 1300 FWD I must admit. I note Glens remark about Vitesse 1600 - a bit surprising as the engine weighs just as much as any other Vitesse engine!Anything quicker is likely to have a different rack bar and thus be completely different. The pinions are interchangeable on the others apparently.Have just scored a Spit rack on evil bay. If this has 6 teeth also I shall be very irritated!NickEdit: Very easy to check Mike, Just back of the big nut a few turns to reduce the sideload on the rack bar, then remove the circlip holding the pinion bush and pull..... count the teeth. Re-assembly is the reverse - if reluctant, back off the big nut a bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 hmmn I can see no reason for the fwd to have a quicker rack but it could be a throwback to the good old recon exchange rack days when "one size fits all" and no matter what you took it was lucky dip what you got back. Incidently a Sprint is supposed to have a different ratio to other Dolomites I believe.More investigation reqd I think.I'll be most annoyed if I have a shed full of 6 toothers which of course is the other possibility :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hammond Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Sprint & 1300 FWD has a quicker rack, 1500 FWD same as the others for whatever reason. Maybe the train of thought was that the FWD cars would be heavier to park???M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 the slower 6 pot rack has a light groove machined into the input spline for identification, the 4 pot is a plain spline (not the groove for the pinch bolt )Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Man Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Just to throw my ideas into the debate, 7 tooth pinion gives quicker and heavier steering, then the 7 tooth pinion gives slower and lighter steering (increased mechanical advantage )Iirc with the 1300fwd to the Dolomite, it was down to what size of steering wheel you had, all cars (1300fwd onward ) had 7 tooth pinion until the smaller diameter steering wheel was introduced then the gearing was changed.I was looking to see if there was a quicker rack for my fwd and was looking at the "Quick rack" that rimmers sell but then realized this was actually a fwd steering rack as a number of people who have used it reported that the track rods where longer, as all people know(?) the fwd cars have a wider front track.But sorry Nick, i guess this doesn't help with your carsGordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 FWIW: The steering rack on pre 1962 Heralds cars is 3.6 turns, lock to lock, compared with the later 3.7 turns lock to lock.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herald948 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 1337 wrote:FWIW: The steering rack on pre 1962 Heralds cars is 3.6 turns, lock to lock, compared with the later 3.7 turns lock to lock.C....and it mounts a bit differently as well, those earlier cars having essentially "solid" mounts, while the later ones had a rubber-bushed mount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Man Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Casper wrote: FWIW: The steering rack on pre 1962 Heralds cars is 3.6 turns, lock to lock, compared with the later 3.7 turns lock to lock.C.Does it have the same amount of linear travel ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hammond Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Yes, it's just the gearing that's different.Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted November 8, 2011 Author Share Posted November 8, 2011 herald948 wrote:...and it mounts a bit differently as well, those earlier cars having essentially "solid" mounts, while the later ones had a rubber-bushed mount.Well, that's interesting. The one I liberated from the 948 had the solid mounts (also liberated), which were different from any I've seen before in having steel location dowels in their top-halves engaging in holes in the rack tube. This suggests a proper early rack.... which nevertheless had a 6 tooth pinion which is a dead ringer for the one in my PI :-/ Puzzled now :(Hope this Spitty one that's coming will provide.Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Man Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Ah yes, but, 3.6 to 3.7 turns isn't enough difference in ratio for just a different pinion (6 teeth to 7 teeth) the pitch for the rack teeth must different also ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hammond Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Just to put a spanner in the works, when steering racks are reconditioned, often some rather low quality reconditioners probably use(d) a mish-mash of racks and pinions, so on a very old car with a chequered past or unknown history, there is little guarantee that all will be as it seems. Saying that, I don't recall ever encountering a Herald or Herald derived car with a knackered steering rack.Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted November 8, 2011 Author Share Posted November 8, 2011 Sure, I realise that - been there before. Loathe re-con stuff. However, one reason for taking this rack in the first place is that the donor car is relatively low mileage and the rack looked pretty original, right down to the wire ties on the gaiters. Also, I also have not had wear issues with Herald racks in the past. Vitesses and Dolomites - oh yes! But then they have a harder life.Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferny Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Slight tangent, but what difference do the solid mounts make in every-day driving? Does it just transmit a lot more vibration through the steering wheel? They're something I've been considering for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebird Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 ferny wrote:Slight tangent, but what difference do the solid mounts make in every-day driving? Does it just transmit a lot more vibration through the steering wheel? They're something I've been considering for a while.Hi FernyI fitted solid mounts in the Vitesse soon after I bought it after finding the rubber ones had turned to mush and the rack was moving left and right as I turned the wheel.As you can imagine they tigtenened things up no end and I don't notice any vibration, so "way to go" I say.Glen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 only downside that I can think of is if you nudge a kerb or similar with solid mounts, all the force will be directed to the track rod end/steering arm without the cushion effect a rubber one will have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky_spit Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Why not go halfway between the two? Use polyurethane rack mounts; they seem pretty good on mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferny Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 But how much "give" do the rubber ones allow? Surely not enough to make much difference from knocks etc?I think I'll make my own, their shape is simple enough. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I have had ally mounts on my cars for the last 18 years. No issues with vibrations, though on the spitfire the rack got bent during the big accident. I doubt anything would have stopped that though.The poly bushes do look a good idea, especially as the ally ones leave a gap either siderelying on a tight fit to stop the rack moving side to side. Get that tlerance wrong and the rack will either move, or lock up solid (as happened to a friends, obviously machined wrongly a long time ago) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 and the short width ally mounts allow the passenger side small plastic anti rattle plunger to fall out , only ever found Moss sell(list) this little part. solution is use a jublilee clip to cover the hole and support the plunger.the std rubber mount covers this , , the plunger is there to stop rack rattle on poor road surfaces polybush sounds a much better compromise Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 If you fit ally rack bushes, ensure they are machined not the cheap cast ones. Cast rack bushes are known to crack.Personally? I'd fit hard nylon bushes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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