Crank job

[glang]

Quoted from Jonny-Jimbo

Probably my turn of phrase was bad, or classic British understatement? I don't know... Anyway, they seem to be mated well.

Lockwiring the bolts would be easy - drill the heads through on them and then lockwire them together with a pigtail twist on the end to lock the wires.

Good news on the installation. For anyone with a similar problem: in the end what cleaning method did you use?

[Jonny-Jimbo]

Alec, I start mine off with a Dormer centre drill to help get through the case hardening and also give a counter sink on the hole.

Glang, I just gave it a very thorough wire brush, lots of degreaser spray (brake cleaner) and used the air line with a very fine nozzle to get into all the crevices, I then went over the lot again with a bradawl to break off any chips and compacted clutch dust etc, particularly in the recess on the fly wheel. I then used a mini wire wheel in the flywheel holes and the threaded holes on the crank (and centre bore) to clean out any crap, then ran a bottoming tap into the crank holes before air lining off the whole lot again.

[mikeyb]

why lock wire when you could just threadlock?

Never had issues undoing threadlocked bolts with an impact gun!

[south sea pommie in aussie]

We used to get this problem with the old v8 cummins ,flywheel coming loose and fretting.What we used to do was flat it with a file and oil stone then apply bearing blue to one face and bolt them together and check the contact area. we aimed for 90 - 95 %  Then the flywheel bolts were loctited. But firstly tension two flywheel bolts without loctite then apply loctite to the other two .This stops the loctite from running up the threads and getting between the crank and the flywheel then remove other two and loctite

[south sea pommie in aussie]

We used to get this problem with the old v8 cummins ,flywheel coming loose and fretting.What we used to do was flat it with a file and oil stone then apply bearing blue to one face and bolt them together and check the contact area. we aimed for 90 - 95 %  Then the flywheel bolts were loctited. But firstly tension two flywheel bolts without loctite then apply loctite to the other two .This stops the loctite from running up the threads and getting between the crank and the flywheel then remove other two and loctite
Good luck drilling and wiring.Loctite is the best thing,you can buy a loctite cleaner and primer to make an extra good job.

[Jonny-Jimbo]

Yup, that's how I was going to do it, so that two of the bolts hold the flywheel in place whilst doing the other two.

[Jonny-Jimbo]

I got the flywheel and everything back in on Saturday - I got fed up of waiting for the new bolts from Chris Witor so I cleaned the threads up well and used a lot of Loctite, hopefully they will hold. I'm intending to rebuild the Mk2 type engine in my Vitesse soon, so when the bolts eventually arrive they can go into that, so it's not a waste of money at all.

As I'm a weedy bloke I'm not able to bench press the gearbox into place, so I made a jig to lift the box on my trolley jack. It was all formed from Dexion, and bolted to the solid rear mount on the overdrive and then cupped the flat bit of the casting where the clutch rod is.



I then welded up a plate that sat under the balance point of the gearbox, with a turned spigot of a steel billet that dropped into the hole on the trolley jack where the 'cup' normally locates. This worked a treat for lifting the box, but unfortunately it also limited rotation, which meant the box didn't quite locate where it was meant to. So, box back out...

Then on Sunday Karl Dandrige popped over to see my new unit, and he lent a hand. In very quick succession, with his experience of 'magic fingers' as he likes to put it, the box was in. I learned a lot from that having never actually fitting a box when I worked for him years ago.

The cradle jobbo will be kept for 'bench work' on the box to keep it stable etc, but I won't use it again for fitting the box to the car. Oh well.

Will, after getting the box in, the mounts went back in, starter motor, prop etc. Exhaust back on tonight and then bleed clutch and we'll have a running and drive car again!



I'm not 100% sure on the routing of the speedo drive - does that look right? Seems to hang down more than I'd expect?

[Radders]

The speedo cable should go through the gap between the two bolts that come through the floor and hold up the gearbox cross member.

[Jonny-Jimbo]

Really? It's never been like that the whole time I have had the car! I'll change it if I have time...

[Radders]

Thats where it was on the two Mk2's I've had.

That was before I saw the light and moved onto Mk1's of course. 😉

[Jonny-Jimbo]

Right, to further complicate matters, the bolt that holds the speedo cable in has stripped the thread out of the gearbox casing. Now I need to work out if I should helicoil it or drill it and tap it for a different bolt.

Anyone else had this issue, and what solution did you come to?

[RobPearce]

I had that problem on the Stag. I made the mistake of drilling it out a bit too deep and broke through into the innards, resulting in a persistent leak. Be careful! I'd suggest helicoil, probably.

[piman]

Hello Jonny,

helicoil every time.

Alec

[Richard B]

Helicoil.


I've found it useful to put a long spring clip (P clip, sort of) through the forward bolt to secure the speedo cable.

[Jonny-Jimbo]

Helicoil kit ordered, a variety of sizes in the kit, Comes to £60, so not ideal, but could be worse, and a useful tool to have really. Should be delivered on Thursday, so all being well I'll still get the car MOT'd before the drivers meeting!

[Jonny-Jimbo]

Heli-Coil fitted, was a simple job really which was nice. I did a test piece on a lump of aluminium billet I had knocking around to try out the kit, but it all seemed simple. I've noticed that a lot of time you buy tools now they don't come with instructions at all - same with a brake pipe flaring kit I bought a while ago...

So, there were some successes and some failures - The whole time I've had the car, the speedo cable wasn't held in well, and as it turns out, wasn't routed correctly. Now it is, it doesn't need a zip-tie to hold it off the exhaust.

I also tried bleeding the clutch too - it wasn't having any of it. I don't know if the clutches are always hard to bleed on these or what, but I hardly got any fluid movement. On top of that, when it finally did come through it was leaking from the thread of the inlet pipe on the slave cylinder. Grrrrrr. I even made sure it was all clean etc. I've 'nipped' it up a touch, and will try again this evening - if that fails then it'll be pipe back off and double check I guess. I might use a syringe or something to fill the slave cylinder. It was very effective using a 200ml syringe to fill the gearbox oil with a bit of pipe on the end to get it in the hole (giggity).

[Nick Jones]

I HATE Lockheed master cylinders.  Dunno what it s about them but they make clutch bleeding a total pain.  Pressure bleeder or vacuum bleeder (really big syringe on slow cylinder bleed nipple) makes things possible.

Nick

[Jonny-Jimbo]

Hmm, glad it's not just me then.
I never thought of using the syringe on it actually, other than using it to fill the slave up so there is less air in the first place. One of the guys in another workshop where mine is has a vac bleeder that runs off the compressor. I may see if he's around and give that a go.

[davidb5964]

Hi Jon.
We do tend to use a syringe on all of the cars in the RD workshop especially on the new fords, Then if needs be a two man bleed the old fashioned way.(up ,open down ,shut bubbles in the jar and back up) as I was taught at 16

[Jonny-Jimbo]

Hmm, still having issues - the passenger side rear wheel cylinder has lots of tiny, tiny bubbles coming through constantly and so does the clutch slave, even having drawn through a litre of fluid from the clutch (obviously with regular top ups!), as you said Dave, I might try getting a second set of legs over the weekend to help finish the bleeding.

[Tim Bancroft]

I had some success years ago using an ezzi bleed, had to pressuise at 30psi though and was very fearful of fluid going everywhere.

Think one of those vacu bleeders is favourite.

As a point of interest, was talking to an owner of an early 5 series BMW, which is such a Tri 2000 copy, he has exactly the same issues bleeding a clutch on that car!

[Jonny-Jimbo]

I remembered just before the drivers briefing yesterday that I actually had an Easy-Bleed thing in a box somewhere - last time I used it it blew the seals out of the master cylinder on one of my BMWs, so I junked it off. I gave it a go, and sure enough, it bled the clutch and rear wheel cylinders in seconds.

[TedTaylor]

When using a vacuum system (MityVac or syringe) if you get very small bubbles coming through the pipe it could very well be due to air being drawn through the brake nipple thread.

Either look out for it and assess whether it is large bubbles from the slave/master cylinder or very small bubbles through the nipple thread. Or wrap some PTFE tape around the nipple thread which will with luck stop the leak through the thread.

I have used pressure, vac, pump (from pedal) and simple drain through bleeding.  Depends which works but usually I start by simply letting the fluid drain out of the opened nipple and then use a pressure system.  

MUT

[RobPearce]

I've never had much luck bleeding any clutch, other than by using an Eezibleed - but that's only possible with exactly the right fittings or all you'll get is a spray of brake fluid from the reservoir cap.

[Nick Jones]

Herald, Vitesse, various Dolomites (all with Girling M/C) bleed under gravity alone.  PI, with Lockheed M/C, much messing about, cursing and never sure all the air is gone.

Nick