Fuel tank rust removal

[Spitfire6]

On 05/08/2022 at 21:26, standardthread said:

Give  me 4* back, more mpg, grow food not 'petrol'.

Modern ethanol (E5, E10, E the future) are all hygroscopic and scavenge water from the atmosphere, therefore, because petrol floats on water the scavenged water gets in the fuel line or makes pin holes in steel petrol tanks. The higher the E number, the more water. A reason why modern car manufacturers offer limited guarantees on fuel systems?

Hi,

All wrong.
F- for saying this.

Cheers,

Iain.

[RobPearce]

We all "know" (apparently) that E10 fuel is no good and you need more of it for the same mileage. That's probably why my modern has just returned its best ever fuel economy on a tankful of E10.

[standardthread]

12 hours ago, Spitfire6 said:

Hi,

All wrong.
F- for saying this.

Cheers,

Iain.

Don't appreciate the language (requires moderator intervention?), only repeating what has been written on other forums

[Clive]

12 minutes ago, standardthread said:

Don't appreciate the language (requires moderator intervention?), only repeating what has been written on other forums

f- is the grade methinks

In fact e10 is technically hygroscopic, but that doesn't mean your fuel tank will gradually fill with water. The maximum amount of water will be less tha 0.5%, and worth remembering the ethanol doesn't suck water out of the air, it is a very passive process. 

Plenty of misunderstanding out there on the web, and myths/inaccuracies seem to spread without check. 

[RobPearce]

56 minutes ago, standardthread said:

only repeating what has been written on other forums

Probably best not to do that. It's exactly why so much of the Internet is utterly useless garbage - it's all been blindly repeated parrot-fashion with no effort to fact check the source.

[Adrian Girling]

Getting back to the subject of this post, I have read somewhere (on the internet!) about someone restoring a Herald including cutting the fuel tank in two, cleaning it out and then welding a strip of steel to make it wider, just not too wide to prevent access to the spare wheel!  Maybe someone else has seen this and can provide a link?

For my project, I may need to use my Herald fuel tank but I'm also considering using an MX5 tank that I have as an alternative.  Adrian B, if you are not in too much of a hurry perhaps hold fire on your tank for a while.  For starting and running the engine a used oil can works as a fuel tank 👍

[glang]

I know the Vitesse tank is wider than some Herald units and a useful upgrade. Then theres some RH tanks around so you can have one on both sides of the boot!

[Rosbif]

I find the standard Herald tank in my 13/60 is big enough for my needs. I get mid to high 30's mpg and top up at 150 mile(ish) intervals. I have been know to carry a can of petrol in the boot when I go off on trips away just in case, but never needed to use it, I use small country roads where petrol stations are rare.

[glang]

yes not sure when the Herald got the Vitesse 40L tank if that is the case...

[Craig]

I think it's only the last of the Herald saloon and convertible models from around 1970 that had the larger 9 gallon tank from the Vitesse.

I had a 1968 13/60, and that had the smaller 6.5 gallon tank.

No doubt, a Herald aficionado will come along and tell me where I'm wrong...

[RobPearce]

I think Craig's right. Unfortunately my 1967 Vitesse has a 6.5 gallon Herald tank.

[Craig]

2 hours ago, glang said:

I know the Vitesse tank is wider than some Herald units and a useful upgrade. Then theres some RH tanks around so you can have one on both sides of the boot!

Original works Herald boot arrangement:

[Adrianb]

 The tank on the left is my original 13/60 the tank on the right Mr Standard Thread can advise as to the model that came from but I think he mentioned a mk2 vitesse 

[TimW]

Ignore everything you've read so far and use electrolysis.  Placing a chunk of iron connected to + on battery charger then connect - to the tank. Submerge the entire tank in a plastic container filled with bicarbonate of soda and water. Switch on the battery charger and leave. It could take a few days or upto a week or more but it will get rid of all the rust from everywhere inside the tank. Plenty of guides on Google and YouTube. A friend did his and the inside of the tank looked like new after a week. Use science rather than a cement mixer!

[standardthread]

55 minutes ago, Adrianb said:

 The tank on the left is my original 13/60 the tank on the right Mr Standard Thread can advise as to the model that came from but I think he mentioned a mk2 vitesse 

Probably a Mk2 Vitesse that was with your windrscreen scuttle, but not sure, I've broken too many Heralds over the decades. My 69 (purchased in 1980) everyday herald saloon had the larger tank, I don't think the previous owner had the knowledge or interest to fit it.

 

40 minutes ago, TimW said:

Ignore everything you've read so far and use electrolysis.  Placing a chunk of iron connected to + on battery charger then connect - to the tank. Submerge the entire tank in a plastic container filled with bicarbonate of soda and water. Switch on the battery charger and leave. It could take a few days or upto a week or more but it will get rid of all the rust from everywhere inside the tank. Plenty of guides on Google and YouTube. A friend did his and the inside of the tank looked like new after a week. Use science rather than a cement mixer!

Electrolysis, yes it does work, I've done it on fragile parts.

Edited August 16, 2022 by standardthread

[glang]

1 hour ago, Adrianb said:

 The tank on the left is my original 13/60 the tank on the right Mr Standard Thread can advise as to the model that came from but I think he mentioned a mk2 vitesse 

yes looks like any Vitesse model has the same larger tank.

[standardthread]

16 hours ago, TimW said:

Ignore everything you've read so far and use electrolysis.  Placing a chunk of iron connected to + on battery charger then connect - to the tank. Submerge the entire tank in a plastic container filled with bicarbonate of soda and water. Switch on the battery charger and leave. It could take a few days or upto a week or more but it will get rid of all the rust from everywhere inside the tank. Plenty of guides on Google and YouTube. A friend did his and the inside of the tank looked like new after a week. Use science rather than a cement mixer!

Take the idea one stage further.

You have a tank to hold fluid.

Wrap the chunk of iron in plastic (not completely), put it in the tank so the plastic insulates the sacrificial metal from the tank body.

Connect the + wire to it through the filler pipe. Remove the fuel sensor. Temporarily seal the hole.

Fill the tank with electrolyte, connect the body of the tank to the -ve, switch on and wait. Result, sparkling internal steel surface.

Rinse the tank and treat to stop further rust.

Fill with petrol.

I await the flack. 

[Ed H]

Electrolytic rust removal seems to be a bit of a fad right now.  I'e used it occasionally  over the years, and it works fine, but no better than simpler chemical or mechanical methods.

Electrolysis is essentially a line-of-sight process, so the electrode needs to be inside the tank.  Any baffles in the tank will be a problem.  Tanks with odd shapes can also be a problem.  The effectiveness of the process is worst in areas hardest to see, so there is often a false sense of success.

Electrolysis is a good tool for specific situations, but it's way down the list of rust removal methods, at least for me.

Ed 

[JohnD]

5 hours ago, standardthread said:

Fill the tank with electrolyte, connect the body of the tank to the -ve, switch on and wait. Result, sparkling internal steel surface.

No flack, ST, but "Sparkling surface"?????????      I very much doubt that!      Essentially, electrolysis deposits metal on the surface atom by atom (in fact ion by ion, of course).   This is a random process, probably governed by quantum mechanics, which is definitely more than just rocket science, so lease don't ask me!     A randomly deposited surface will have a  matt finish. 

Granted "electropolishing" can be done.    Applications in medical instruments, and other HiTec products.  See: What is Electropolishing? How Does Electropolishing Work? (besttechnologyinc.com)

But you will note that the method involves "high-viscosity Sulphuric acid", not washing soda!      Your friend didn't 'electroplate' his tank, did he, by reversing the electrodes?

John

[PeteStupps]

3 hours ago, Ed H said:

Electrolysis is essentially a line-of-sight process, so the electrode needs to be inside the tank.

Bang on. And I would add, current flow gets concentrated along paths of lower resistance through the electrolyte. So you don't get an even amount of electrolysis on irregular shaped objects. You can mitigate this by putting the anode further away from the workpiece, or mixing a weaker electrolyte. 

I tried electrolysis-stripping my wishbones a couple of years ago. It's not something i'll bother with again I don't think.

[Spitfire6]

On 16/08/2022 at 09:24, standardthread said:

Don't appreciate the language (requires moderator intervention?), only repeating what has been written on other forums

Hi,
nobody likes a F- (Grade).
You clearly deserve it.
Please check your facts before posting & stop being gullible.

Iain.

.

 

[standardthread]

On 15/08/2022 at 20:30, Spitfire6 said:

Hi,

All wrong.
F- for saying this.

Cheers,

Iain.

Given that it would appear that large numbers of classic car drivers have issues and problems with ethanol in petrol, me included in the form of emulsified deposits in carbs and pinholes in petrol tanks I take it you can prove your absolute with scientific reports, and links to same? If not, to reply in a similar tone to your last post. Zip it. 

[RobPearce]

1 hour ago, standardthread said:

I take it you can prove your absolute with scientific reports

Much as you may dislike his tone, he actually can so prove his statements, as they are statements of accepted scientific fact, unlike the "it would appear" rumours that you're giving in support of your claims. So perhaps the both of you should tone down a little and stop dredging up old posts purely for the sake of taking offence.

[Spitfire6]

7 hours ago, standardthread said:

Given that it would appear that large numbers of classic car drivers have issues and problems with ethanol in petrol, me included in the form of emulsified deposits in carbs and pinholes in petrol tanks I take it you can prove your absolute with scientific reports, and links to same? If not, to reply in a similar tone to your last post. Zip it. 

Hi,
Suggest you first stop rainwater getting into your fuel tank as E10 does not "pull" water from the air.
Second, repair the damage the water has caused.
Third, add Ethanol to your fuel tank to enable any water in the tank to be removed.
You could add "Dry Fuel", but ethanol or E10 is cheaper.

Does that make sense to you?

Cheers,
Iain.

 

[standardthread]

Sorry to add my final post on the subject, the Wikipedia take on the subject of ethanol being hygroscopic. Not a quote from a forum.