Freebird Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 HiI'm looking for a classic to replace our dull and boring Volvo 440. I want an estate for praticality and being a Vitesse owner already, the Truimph 2000 or 2500 estate is high on my list of favorites.We have several kids, so it is essential to have seatbelts in the back, preferably inertia reel either side but must be 3 point, with a lap belt in the middle. Is this practical? Anyone done it?Glen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilesdive Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Sorry, can't help with your question re seat belts in an estate, but perhaps you already have the answer to my question.I am thinking about getting a Vitesse convertible - how easy is it to fit a 3 point lap-and-diagonal belt in the back? It sounds as if you have them.You say you have "several kids"........did you lose count? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Glen,Having not done the conversion myself I wouldn't have a clue how to advise you, but my newly acquired Mk1 2000 estate has inertia reel seatbelts in the back as well as a "lap strap" in the middle.If the weather's ok tomorrow I can take a few photos of their placement if it helps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seth Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Dawson, I'd be very interested in some pics if you can as I think we're going to have this issue shortly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebird Posted November 30, 2006 Author Share Posted November 30, 2006 DawsonLook forward to seening your photos.gilesdiveYou are right, my Vitesse Convertible does have 3 point belts in the back. This was done by a previous owner. There is a substantial box section frame behind the rear seat which is bolted through the floor somewhere. The belts attach to the top of the frame which is level with the seat back. The frame occupies some of the space where the hood folds into making it a bit of a squeeze, but it all fits. I will take some photos at the weekend and post them here, but without taking the hood frame and rear seat out it's impossible to see deep down.Glen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Hope these shots give you some idea.. wish I could tell you more but I just bought it like this, hehe!Btw, the part of the seatbelt that's usually attached to a pillar just above shoulder height - the bit in the first photograph - isn't attached to anything on mine; I'm not sure if this might affect how the inertia works? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebird Posted December 2, 2006 Author Share Posted December 2, 2006 DawsonI don't like the way the belt goes over the back of the seat. In the event of a shunt the force of the pull on the belt is likely to just fold the seat back forward, releasing the tension on the belt and leaving them redundant. They need to be anchored higher up.Glen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebird Posted December 2, 2006 Author Share Posted December 2, 2006 GilesdiveAs promised I have taken some photos of the belts in my Vitesse. It's hard to get a good view. The frame fits very close to the seat back to leave room for the hood. It extends down the sides too and is bolted to the floor near the B post and to each rear wheel arch.I don't know how to add more than one photo to a post like Dawson did, so mine are on separate ones. 1st one here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebird Posted December 2, 2006 Author Share Posted December 2, 2006 Next one showing the anchorage thru the nearside wheel arch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebird Posted December 2, 2006 Author Share Posted December 2, 2006 Last one showing the top of the frame running behind the seat back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Thoroughly agree with Freebird.The seat back is only lightly built. In a crash the weight of the passenger will be several tons, and this belt witl just crush down the seatback, allowing passenger to swing forward, striking head on front seats and probably releasing them from the belts completely.The anchor behind the shoulder should be less than 10 degrees above or below it. An anchor that allows the belt to run at less than 45 degrees below the shoulder is acceptable, but not this!An inertia reel on the floor behind is also acceptable, but there should be an anchor in the above position, that the belt runs through. If that is the part seen above the inertia reel, partly obscured by the belt, then it should be much higher! On the window sill, for preference and if that is strong enough.John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Don't shoot the messenger people! ;)I've only had the car a month now and to be honest if it wasn't for the hassle and the importance of doing a few other things on the car I would have probably taken the rear belts out completely already; after all, a Peugeot 309 lapstrap doesn't really compliment the 60's interior does it!? ;D I'm under the impression that due to the cars age and the fact it didn't have rear belts from the factory I don't have to have them fitted, and being a (currently!) single 20-something I don't really have much call for any belts in the back anyway, unlike the PO who installed them...As I photographed I did wonder where you would even mount the shoulder anchor: on a saloon there is the rear post but in the estate there's just so much glass in that vicinity I wouldn't have the foggiest idea. The window sill might be a possibility as you say John, but I imagine it would take some modifications to be sufficiently strong enough and might still be out of the 10 degrees you mention...Not as easy at it looks obviously, perhaps the PO fixed the two ends of the rear belts, looked up at the estate glass and thought "bugger!" ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilesdive Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Hi FreebirdThanks for pictures of Vitesse belts. Nice to know it can be done, because the whole point in getting a Vitesse is to be able to take the family out, rather than be Billy-no-mates blasting around in the TR.DawsonYou are right in thinking if the car did not have belts in originally, you do not legally require them, so you may remove them. If they are fitted, anybody in the back must use them.I know as a single guy (if I can remember that far back) you won't often have rear passengers, but don't forget that in the event of a crash, a 12 stone guy coming forwards into the back of your seat at 30+ mph can do more than ruin your entire day, so I would try to keep some sort of belt even if it is only a lap-strap.Not a cheerful subject, but better to think about it now than after a smash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Fear not, I have no desire to have the imprint of a Mk1 2000 steering wheel in my face in the event of a crash, however much I think it's a very pretty wheel ;DHave never even entertained the thought of getting in any car without wearing some sort of restraint... as callous as it sounds I don't have much sympathy for these teenagers getting catapulted out of their cars in crashes: if you're foolish enough not to use a seatbelt that's dangling by your arm (especially when you're the one driving!)... well...Crikey that did sound callous! :oLapstraps might be a good solution for the odd occasion... I'd not really thought about it much but I could even hide them completely underneath the seat when not in use. Thanks for the thought! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Yes Daws - no more sitting in the back whilst I chauffeur you around! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sorbington Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 I've seen some older estate cars fitted with a steel rod on each side of the car, from the window sill to the roof (inside the car). This basically gives a 'pillar' to fix the seat belt shoulder pivot point to. The rod would need to incorporate a boss at its mid point, with a threaded hole to accept the fixing bolt. I hope you can work out what I mean, it's not easy to describe! An alternative would be to mount the reel at shoulder height and do away with the upper pivot altogether. Either way, brackets and reinforcing would be needed.I wish I could remember how the rear seat belts worked on my mates '80s 3 door Escort estate. Much the same sort of situation , but the belts would be factory fitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Dawson,Sorry if I sounded censorious!Like you, many of us take safety seriously.For those who don't - if it wasn't for the cost in health care and benefits, which you and I pay for, I'd just think of it as evolution in action.Jhn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebird Posted December 4, 2006 Author Share Posted December 4, 2006 Volvo 245 estates have the bar across the window as described by "sorbs". Plenty of these in the scrap yards.The anchorage top and bottom would need to be very strong.Glen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebird Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 My Alfa estate is starting to annoy me with various suspension clonks and steering rack slop after only 87000 miles, so I am again on the look out for a 2000/2500 estate. The only reservation I have is the fitting of rear seatbelts.Has anyone found a good solution with inertia reels on either side and a lap belt in the middle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freebird Posted March 13, 2015 Author Share Posted March 13, 2015 Hi EveryoneI started this post way back in 2006 when I was thinking about getting a 2000/2500 estate. I didn't get one at the time partly due to the difficulty in fitting rear belts. However time has moved on and once again I find myself hankering after such a car - the question is has there been any progress on rear seat belt front in the last 9 years?CheersGlen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TedTaylor Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Yes lots - Colin Radford is the expert. I have a pair to fit but not done it yet and if no repsonse in a week or two I will post something .......... so come on Colin!MUT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy thompson Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I'm waiting too :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JensH Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Not my installation, and don't know how it works in practice, as it was done before I got the car - and it has not been on the road since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willows40 Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 When I got my present mk1 estate, it had seat belts fitted very similar to that photo, I removed them as didn't like the way they would pull, really need I higher mount, as is will pull down to muchNot having children to worry about just fitted a couple of lap belts in backCheers Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRAJ Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 When I fitted rear belts in the estate I used Securon 264 inertia reel ones. These are the type used in the rear of an Acclaim. I then fixed the reels on the rear arch bowls but lower down than in the photo already posted, with an FIA harness plate on the inside of the arch. You have got a redundant pillar mount bracket on the belt which you can't use, but this has never bothered me.I have heard the argument about the belt being at the wrong angle as it comes over the shoulder, but this is very similar to the seatbelt in a herald/spitfire or GT6. I would much rather have the 3 point belt than a lap belt, which is why I fitted them.I may be able to do a couple of pics to show what I mean about fitting them lower down the arch. Thanks Ted but I'm not an expert, I've just doe the job a couple of times. Also note that Securon 254 belts that you use in the big saloons only work for the under tens in an estate, I initially fitted one of these in the estate for the 2010 RBRR, Dad and I could only just use it and breath, it was fine for my son Callum who was ten at the time lol. They are too short for the more remote position of the reel mounting.Colin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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