10CR 2015 Suggestions

[andy thompson]

I think the (almost)  all in one hotel concept in Italy was a nice idea but from the two runs I've done that was the least satisfying stopover. I think the main issue was being stuck in a flat field in nowhere land rather than in a town with character. Both of the German stops have been fine - this year served up one of the best steaks bar none.
I think a Santander start with a Dutch finish would really allow an expansion of the route without the drag through France although for a couple of hours before Dijon this year me and James found some stunning country roads with zero traffic - I had as much fun as on any mountain pass.

[thescrapman]

Jason wrote:

I didn't like the continental start, it stretched the duration of the event too far with no appreciable benefits to the driving quality of what we were doing - I felt like I wasted a day.

If not a continental start, pehaps a Dover start at about 9am. Most people who came from further afield when the start was at the Plough, stayed locally, those that lived close cursed having to go to the Plough. Those that lived in Kent swore at Ellis!

I think the problem is that having the additional hotel (saturday night) means the loss of 16 hours driving time. Needing more time to be found from elsewhere, so an earlier start on the Thursday.

If the Saturday night was done away with, you get time to stop somewhere so a nice meal, have a kip (even 6 hours isn't impacting too much) in a layby, everything is much more relaxed.

And the roadbook was the hardest ever to understand! Or perhaps I am getting old and Slag-navs easier to program....
Even that dodgy old one I borrowed in 2005 knew where we should be going, even though we ignored her and wasted 12+ hours stuck in Switzerland (I think!)

Just my thoughts.

Cheers

Colin

[mikeyb]

The Continental start worked for me, as did the night before in Dover - which meant a leisurely trip down, a nice meal with a couple of beers, a good nights sleep and a hearty breakfast before the off on Thu.

This in turn meant two refreshed drivers who were able to enjoy the long blat down through France without being tired before we started!

[sparky_spit]

MikeyB wrote:

The Continental start worked for me, as did the night before in Dover - which meant a leisurely trip down, a nice meal with a couple of beers, a good nights sleep and a hearty breakfast before the off on Thu.

This in turn meant two refreshed drivers who were able to enjoy the long blat down through France without being tired before we started!

I think the long blast down through France on non-Autoroute roads through Thursday evening/night is one of the highlights of the trip.  Valenciennes/Reims/Dijon/Grenoble was brilliant, and so was Rouen southwards to Bordeaux in 2009.

[Raider]

sparky_spit wrote:

I think the long blast down through France on non-Autoroute roads through Thursday evening/night is one of the highlights of the trip.  Valenciennes/Reims/Dijon/Grenoble was brilliant

That will always be how a 10CR should start for me but no I wouldn't want a continental or a Dover start at 9 or 10am.

[Sheepy]

I have yet to do a 10CR, but i will soon, (hopefully)

Why not just say here are the checkpoints (grid reference/location given) and then you make your own way there, doing whatever route you desire, using a map or sat nav etc.
Then at the location you must take a picture of yourself and car to prove you were there, also that way it will stop your mate taking a piccy and you just copying it.

As for the hotel/sleep stops, I can see that people would prefer to have rest, so that they are safe, and also you can then enjoy the driving rather than driving sleepy!
If you want a cannon ball type race/run then another separate one could be organised, and from the outset, let the entrants know that this is a mad dash from a - b, with not much rest, etc etc (you get my point)

I also agree about the difficulty of organising an event, I see what some of my friends have done when organising one, just recently dirk and his wife did one for the roadster club, they were working everytime I went round! Route planning, hotels etc etc!
My hats off to anyone who does it, but without them we all would not have a jolly good time!

[shedmonkey]

Jason wrote:

Back to the 10CR ideas :-)

Although I've done them all no email received but then you can't ask everyone everything all the time so no grudge held!

Firstly, before I offer any feedback, it's important to say that I'm grateful to any organiser of an event, I know what it takes and I know how it feels when someone criticises. The 10CR is fundamentally a good a event, I wouldn't keep doing it if it wasn't.

I think the road book should be better, the route was reasonable but there was no way to navigate from the road book alone so I wondered if it represented good value for money spent printing it? Transposing it to maps was fraught with difficulty, I felt it would have been better to have done it on Google maps rather than in MS Autoroute. Sat Nav was the only way to go. Hotels were too sanitised but then I am far too familiar with Holiday Inns and they are a necessary evil for such a big field. The check point concept doesn't work as there's often no one around to sign a book and with such a large field it's impractical to police. I didn't like the continental start, it stretched the duration of the event too far with no appreciable benefits to the driving quality of what we were doing - I felt like I wasted a day.

There's an evolution to the 10CR that seems to be going more towards hotels and civilisation than the original idea of the run, it's getting a bit comfortable in it's old age. That's fine and certainly has a place in the calender, plenty of people like that and as long as it gets participants then it's right to run it in that format. Mountain passes can, like Holiday Inns, get a little bit samey but there's no denying they have their uses. Is is time for the uncivilised 10CR to be distilled out of the present civilised one?

Personally I think I want something a little less mainstream and a little more rough around the edges, that means it won't have the mass appeal and would then be a smaller affair. I would like to get the adventure back - that first daft frolic in a Stretch Herald was great mainly because we had no clue how we were going to get round and we hadn't done it before (there were good reasons for that!)

I've looked at driving to the Arctic Circle (bloody long way). a trip to Moscow or Berlin, recreating the European route of the World Cup Rally (could be done, I have a route) and the driving round  Portugal and Spain thing. I've had chats about the whole ferry to Santander and run around Spain maybe down to Gibraltar but that means 24 hours on a boat both ways and that robs you of valuable driving time :-)

I'm with Jason,loose the check points,let people sort their own accommodation,plan their own route,aim to meet for Breakfast somewhere,aim to meet in the evening,fix cars, sleep then get going again -no fannying around - drive through the night if you want to-or get some kip somewhere if you want - aim to meet for a piss up on day 3 evening
Open it up to non Triumphs
Throw in a few motor bikes
Take lots of fire extinguishers
Simples!

Just my personal opinion (Which I know counts for nowt!) but for me  Continental road trips are  all about the adventure,wing and pray,challenge,seeing off the beaten track places,getting yourself out the cack,making it back home etc

[DGF]

same thoughts on the check points....Bob king and i went out to marshall on the 09 we had two marshall point and even we couldn't get to the second on time and we were in  a fast modern .It does take a lot of effort to organise a road event ..but sometimes it can be over organised ..and that can take the fun out of it a bit for the drivers
we went out for our own celebration of the 10th anniversary ..with the aim to follow the original route etc..but on the sat we thought ..begger this we'll go and do stelvio..then when we got to the top we thought begger  driving throught the night we'll stay in a hotel at the top .I know it's not a straight comparison to the 10cr, as we were on a private road run ..but leaving  a bit more flexability in the 10cr would be a good thing ...be less work for the overworked organisers too

[mikeyb]

fair point and I'm in agreement to some extent, however don't forget that the 10CR routebook contains only an advisory route, to direct you along some of the best driving roads in Europe. There is no mandatory requirement to follow any of it, but if you don't you could potentially miss out of some of the good bits.  Of course, you could find better bits instead :-)

A couple of examples - on the 2011 event we were heading towards the Stelvio when the crap-nav sent us along an unintended route. By the time we had realised, we had gone to far to turn back so continued. We ended up driving a fantastic twisty forest section, passed a sleepy village spotting some big saloons outside a bar! Then climed out of the forest to the top of a large plateau that had stunning views and resembled a rocky lunar landscape, before wiggling down the other side and picking up the intesed route again into Italy. I must sit down with the route book and maps and work out where it actually located - well worth a detour!

The second example, I think on the previous event,  involved a significant delay to our journey due to stopping to assist a Triumph breakdown. When we got back on route again some couple of hours behind, we got to a small town at the top of a mountain, had to stop for food as starving hungry. By the time we had dined in a superb establishment, the cloud had come down, rending the twisty road down into Italy treacherous (as described by a couple of fellow 10CR'rers who had driven past and turned back. Then we heard another had crashed. Being dog tired by now, we elected to miss Italy and turn back ourselves, finding a hotel for the night. The following day we back up through France instead of Germany as planned, picking back up the route further north.  This time I'm sure we missed out some good bits of the intended route - but that's where the flexibility comes in!

[shedmonkey]

Fair point - but the reason I pulled out of this years was it was made VERY CLEAR  that I would not be welcome taking part with that sort of attitude - so I thought sod it then I will do my own thing (fire ball XL5!) and its also one of the reasons I haven't renewed my membership

[Goody]

Their is no way you will make everyone happy no matter what you do.   After doing 3 of these, this was the easy one.  The 09 one was the most scenic one and the 11 was most challenge with all the Alpine passes.  Combine all 3 and you get a Great Run.  Ok not so many passes.   As for overnight stops, this one was about right and I personally like the get together at each stop.  (I only get to see some of you on these runs)  Regie Barton got Ellis to OK for me to sign the books at the control stops if no other officer was around as I am only a forum moderator.  Lets face it, we are mostly all honest here and as long as a few of us made a check point then we all know each made it as this is not the RBRR with timed points.  Starting in france instead of the Plough worked for my team, but I understand not for everyone.  Like the last one we stoped at the Plough on Monday anyway.  Of course I don't know if I will be able to do the next one, but I have faith in all of you to come up with a good run.

My only complaint: Hotel that ran out of BEER and Rolduc closing the BAR early!

Note to ajp:  I think you were joking, but I would never vote to change the rules about Club Members and only Triumphs on the run.    

[Deleted User]

Here's an idea that has been used on Le Jog for many years.

Le Jog has a route for the hardened competitor and a easier touring trial using a shorter route.

It would be difficult for organisers to arrange two routes that would meet up on an event such as the 10CR or whatever comes after it but not impossible.

Two people organising each route, working together so that both groups meet up at hotels at more or less the same time.

For example, the hard route from Calais runs through the Massif Central, Nice and up to the hotel at Turin, the easier route leaves Calais, runs through the Vosges, overnight halt near Geneva then back into France, over the Alps and down to the hotel at Turin but arriving several hours ahead of the other group.

The next day would have a more direct route to the next overnight stop than the harder route and again arrive some hours earlier.

It would be a bit of a pig to organise and, in the end, the easier route may not get enough entries to justify doing it for the next run of the event but it would allow the hard core to get on with what they enjoy while giving those who like to see the Alps, without being half asleep, an alternative.

If Le Jog can do it, then why not us.

There seems to be a split with those wanting a hard core event and those who want a softer event.

This is not an ideal solution but it goes some way to giving everyone what they want.

It keeps the event going as a single event and not having people diving off on their own.

We all want people to see the point of being part of Club Triumph and we all want to see as many of us as possible enjoying and taking part in the events that folk like Ellis have the thankless task of organising.

So, no whining.

We need ideas.

If you don't like what's been offered, then what have you to offer?

Jim.

[shedmonkey]

MWG445 wrote:

Here's an idea that has been used on Le Jog for many years.

Le Jog has a route for the hardened competitor and a easier touring trial using a shorter route.

It would be difficult for organisers to arrange two routes that would meet up on an event such as the 10CR or whatever comes after it but not impossible.

Two people organising each route, working together so that both groups meet up at hotels at more or less the same time.

For example, the hard route from Calais runs through the Massif Central, Nice and up to the hotel at Turin, the easier route leaves Calais, runs through the Vosges, overnight halt near Geneva then back into France, over the Alps and down to the hotel at Turin but arriving several hours ahead of the other group.

The next day would have a more direct route to the next overnight stop than the harder route and again arrive some hours earlier.

It would be a bit of a pig to organise and, in the end, the easier route may not get enough entries to justify doing it for the next run of the event but it would allow the hard core to get on with what they enjoy while giving those who like to see the Alps, without being half asleep, an alternative.

If Le Jog can do it, then why not us.

There seems to be a split with those wanting a hard core event and those who want a softer event.

This is not an ideal solution but it goes some way to giving everyone what they want.

It keeps the event going as a single event and not having people diving off on their own.

We all want people to see the point of being part of Club Triumph and we all want to see as many of us as possible enjoying and taking part in the events that folk like Ellis have the thankless task of organising.

So, no whining.

We need ideas.

If you don't like what's been offered, then what have you to offer?

Jim.

Jim
All the above has been suggested and ignored over the last six years- along with offers of help

Its all a bit ground hog day for me -so time to move on!

[James]

ajp wrote:

Jim
All the above has been suggested and ignored over the last six years- along with offers of help

Its all a bit ground hog day for me -so time to move on!

New organisers, Andy, fingers crossed.

[shedmonkey]

Bit late for me  whilst distracted my heads been turned by other non-triumph stuff! and I haven't the resource just to keep a Triumph for doing the RBR- with regards to cars  I feel like a teenager discovering girls breasts for the first time- I want to try them all! Lotus Elat and TVR 350i keep slipping into my sordid mind!

[Alex]

ajp wrote:

Bit late for me  whilst distracted my heads been turned by other non-triumph stuff! and I haven't the resource just to keep a Triumph for doing the RBR- with regards to cars  I feel like a teenager discovering girls breasts for the first time- I want to try them all! Lotus Elat and TVR 350i keep slipping into my sordid mind!

:'( don't go ! ;)

[Davemate]

ajp wrote:

I feel like a teenager discovering girls breasts for the first time- I want to try them all !

I've tried a few different ones over the years, but the suspension goes on most of them after a while.
You can get them refurbed, but they just don't handle the same.

[DGF]

wouldn't be a pig to organise two running side by side..all the two organising teams would need to do is agree the meet up points/times ..and away they go ..plan..meet back up ,,discuss..bit of fettling and hey presto...simples..but whether you'd get enough entries for both is another matter
or ,if the event was flexible enough to allow easier options to be fitted in by whoever wanted to do so ,without failling to 'finish' the event..then only one event needs to be organised
And i'm sure the BMC may be organising something next year

[Deleted User]

3020 wrote:

wouldn't be a pig to organise two running side by side

Personally, I don't think it would either.

Jim.

[Raider]

The HCR has different options so it could be done.

In fact I was planning a touring route and a driver's route for the 2007 event before I decided to hand over the reins.

[shedmonkey]

Ah forgot about BMC!

[DGF]

It could be the inaugrual BMC Run What You Brung To The Sun Run

[shedmonkey]

3020 wrote:

It could be the inaugrual BMC Run What You Brung To The Sun Run

Sounds a very good idea - speak via other social network!

[Don Cook]

Seems to me that there is always an inquest of some kind following each 10CR...perhaps not the first 2003 event. What this is all about is a recognition of a number of issues. Perhaps they may be summarised as becoming too sanitised, too organised, there seems a desire to 'improve' on the previous event. Hence we now have control points, extra days, organised hotels, starting points that add pressure to time and money but for me, and its just my opinion, a reluctance to make the original thrust of the event anything other than a blast around the Alps...20 mountain passes indeed!

I had to miss out on this years event because of a knee operation (I didn't receive 'the' email either) but frankly I was in two minds anyway whether I wanted to do it because of the Alps issue. I love the Alps but I want to see/visit them, not just blast around helter-skelter like. There is no getting around France but it has other stunning areas other than the Alps: Some have alluded to the run down through Dijon via Valenciennes and Rheims as a highlight (my particular favourite), The Millau Bridge and parts of the Grand Massif - looks like Arizona to me. The 2009 trip (the route) was the way forward but we seem to have returned to the same old same old.

Jason has suggested returning more rough edges to the event, I'm inclined to think we make our own rough edges, who stays on the route anyhow. I had a particularly wonderful dinner in  a small town (Fiat 500s were parked up on display) somewhere on the banks of Lake Maggiore, remember James, Craig et al, we all skipped the route? Therefore, I cannot see what the reasoning is of having Control Points, hence on the 2011 Run we didn't really bother, probably too late anyway. Control points suggest that something else is happening - what? We don't have a follow-up breakdown vehicle, no-one comes out looking for those not signed in. In short it purports a level of organisation that isn't there, isn't needed. We are all adults tempted to join the 10CR trip for the same reasons that inspired Martin Randle and his team to kick the event off in the first place. Because of this we want excitement of our own making. I really don't think we want a package holiday. The first event was free to join, relaxed and informal, no forms to fill in, no books, check points. More or less "See you in Nice for a dip in the Med"

I bought my GT6 in June 2002 and within three weeks was touring France, a few weeks later I was touring Germany. The following May 2003 I was touring Denmark, Sweden and Poland (and all points in between), these tours were rough around the edges so when the 2003 10CR came up I jumped at the chance to do something similar...if you can call turning up on the day 'jumping' (imagine that happening now). So, clearly for me, the original notion of the 10CR has changed over the years. I think Sheepy suggested that a rough around the edges event could be run as a separate event but he's got it the wrong way round. The separate event should be what we now seem to have - a sojourn to the Alps. Imagine what our new friends from the other side of the pond will think if in 2015 we offer them...more of the same.

I suppose this is a criticism of how the 10CR is run but just tell me how many trips/holidays are expected to be committed to (time and money) without even knowing where we'd be going. If the 10CR 2015 is two days chasing around Alpine passes then I'm not interested but will we be told the route in advance? I'd like to think that the comments made by Jason, Andy and Doug, perhaps myself will be taken on board by the new organiser(s), remember we all mean well.

Sorry for the rant but the 10CR is dear to me.

Don

2003 10CR
2005 10CR
2007 10CR
2009 10CR
2011 10CR

[shedmonkey]

Don
Lovely very well put