GT6 mk3 conversion to electric

[Traxgeek]

Hi all !
Brand new to this forum, (in fact, forums in general are new to me). Be gentle please !!!

Seriously, bought a 1971 mk3 GT6 back in '86 (British Racing Green). She'did faiked her MOT on jyst aboyt all pounts !!. Fully renovated her over 12 months or so (she went Ferrari Red) used her as my daily car for a few years til we were side-swiped on the motorway and quite literally squashed between a lorry on the inside and the armourco on the driver's side (teach me to paint her red, I guess)! Bought the car back from the insurance company and started to rebuild / restore her again (now she's Triumph Tahiti Blue !). Stopped restoration due to work and a move to France. She's been in a heated, air conditioned garage now for the past 10-12 years - waiting patiently - 80% finished.

Anyways, I have more time now and want to get her back on the road. To trade I'm an electronics techie guy and I really want to convert her to full LiFePO4 electric !!

Needless to say,  I have some questions I'd really appreciate some insight with...

-1- Stupid idea ? I think it'd be a great project for my son (12) and I - but I'm concerned as to the mooted EU MOT / historic car changes I've seen in the papers recently. Any ideas / thoughts please ?
-2- I have a renovated engine (albeit it's sat in the garage for the past 12-odd years just being manually turned over from time to time, a brand new, unused, unfitted stainless exhaust system and 3 into 1 manifolds... where should I advertise my no longer required kit please ?
-3- Anyone else already undertaken such an 'abomination' , to a GT6 or interested in how it proceeds (IF the proposed new EU MOT /Historic car rules don't 'rule' out my project) ?
-4- Any advice - all (for and against) gratefully received !!

Thanks for reading.

[cook1e]

There is a Herald that has been converted to Electric, it was at the TSSC Stafford show back in 2012. I knew the car when it was standard and owned by long standing Triumph nut Leon Guyot who emigrated to the US leaving his Herald behind (but taking his Vitesse!).

The owner told me that the motor is a type used for drag racing and can kick out 400 BHP but he has it set at 100 BHP to extend the range, still powerful enough to power a Herald, apparently range is 70 - 80 miles if it's not pushed too hard but can be down to 20 miles at 80mph on the motorway!

Pictures I took from Stafford below







Anyway the Herald was also featured on BBC country file and was converted by a company in Wales that specialize in electric conversions.

Here's a clip on youtube that includes the Herald

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ny6nCZpzZo

[Nick Jones]

Interesting idea and one I occasionally kick around a bit.

There have been several Spitfires done, all in the USA as far as I know and a couple of them have been pretty effective, usable cars.  There is a small but growing movement in this type of conversion, but it seems still relatively unusual in Europe as the costs of the hardware are high here.

The legislation question is an interesting one.  IN the UK, I reckon you'd be ok at this point, though for how much longer I have no idea.  In France, I really have no idea but from what I heard about registering classics over there, even in standard form, I suspect it might be a world of pain...... you'd need informed local advice on that one (and probably the local mayor as a drinking buddy!).

If you do go ahead with it I'd strongly suggest keeping the basic car structure unaltered and designing it so the mods are reversible.  The first will likely make registration/certification easier and later will allow the situation to be saved if it all goes pear shaped.

Will follow with interest!

Nick

[efp]

Abslolutely no idea on any of your questions , sorry, but fascinated by your concept.  Is LIFePO4 some kind of hybrid?
My uninformed idea (a Spit man myself) is that the weight of a six-pot alone up front of a lightweight car makes the handling marginal hence all the  efforts to move it rearwards. What the effect of a bunch of batteries would make I have no idea.
Please keep us updated on your plans and progress.   And dare I say welcome to the forum?

[efp]

Ah, thought I was the first to respond, but seemingly not. I defer to my more experienced colleagues. But still, welcome.

[CHRIS211083]

I have a Honda Civic 1.3 IMA hybrid 2004 manual gearbox. It does 70mpg in a car weighing 1300kg. Its an assisst motor so the engine is very efficient and high tech but it needs the boost from the battery to propel it along at a quick rate. A spitfire of 800kg sounds like an ideal platform when the enngine is converted to rear wheel drive for your project.

Chris.

[thescrapman]

In the UK I do not think there is anything to stop you fitting an electric drivetrain. One of the advantages of our very flexible legislation. If you are making changes that would alter the taxation of the vehicle you may have to jump through a few hoops, but all GT6 are now historic.

As for other European countries, not sure, but I do not think I would even think about doing it in Germany.

I met a guy who lived in Luton a few years ago, he was an expert on installing electric motors in cars, he drove a converted Skoda Estelle as his daily driver. He appeared as one of the "experts" on Scrapheap Challenge once.

Cheers

Colin

[Clive]

There is a chappie in out local group who is gathering parts to build an electric Herald.
I think he is attempting to build something pretty clever, and IIRC got a motor from the USA that was originally destined for small electric vans.

If he appears at the next meeting I will see what I can glean, but I think there are several forums about dedicated to conversions, and a wealth of technical info from well informed people. It is, as usual, separating the wheat from the chaff.

[Dzmarc]

Interesting idea, and I would be intrigued to see how it comes out.
I think you are right to go down the Lithium Iron battery route instead of lead acid like in the Herald, due to the extend range, weight and life. Although if you need to add cooling to the packaging that may be an interesting bit of engineering.

Anyway best of luck, and keep us updated on what you do.

[RedRooster]

I don't think your get it insured in France.

[esxefi]

why would you want to replace the sound of a straight six with,..erm.............silence?

[Nick Jones]

Quoted from esxefi

why would you want to replace the sound of a straight six with,..erm.............silence?

Well, there is that (stops me putting a zetec SE in my Vitesse), but at least with an electric you can always add back in whatever sound track you like  

Nick

[markythesparky]

there is a site about an electric midget here
http://www.acterra.org/ev/

[Nick Jones]

Some spitfire links
http://www.triumphspitfire.com/goodwin.html
http://letsbeco.eu/1967-triumph-spitfire-ev-conversion-student-project/#comments
http://evalbum.com/1833  This guy used to post on TTN forum
     http://www.totallytriumph.net/.....amp;forum=DCForumID1
     http://www.totallytriumph.net/.....amp;forum=DCForumID5

I'm sure there was a build thread or blog somewhere but I can't find it......

Nick

[nang]

I'd be concerned with the extra weight imposed by the batteries. 🙁
Tony.

[Nick Jones]

More links - seem to be quite a few Spits done but not found any GT6s yet!

A build blog
http://78electricspitfire.blogspot.co.uk/2008/07/step-1-complete-bought-my-donor.html

and
the full version of the one I was referring to above it seems Cogzoid = Bottomfeeder (I'd have stuck to Cogzoid!)
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/.....ght=triumph+spitfire

You'll need to register to see the pictures but it's free to do.......

Weight - yep it's a problem with lead acid technology if you want useful range but there is better technology about these days.  Yes it is expensive.....
At the end of the last link he starts to convert from lead acid to Li but the thread ends.  He did do it though as I've seen a write up he did comparing the performance..... can't find that now 🤔

Nick

[Traxgeek]

Wow, lads of stuff covered there.
Thanks to all for helping and sharing so far - appreciated, really.
I don't seem to be able to add a picture/image, thought I'did share a couple as to where I've gotten to so far.
Maybe I don't have enough posts under my belt yet, maybe I'm just a little dumb and haven't seen how... either way I *will* post up a few images as soon as I figure out how to do so.

So, back to the job in hand !!
I figure the following (give or take) for a stock 1971 mk3, GT6 :
Weight = 2080lbs
102 BHP
110mph top end
10 secs 0-60mph

480 lbs for the motor
Some 70lbs+ for the cooling system and exhaust
Some 45lbs for the fuel tank (wet)

So, remove the engine and (apart from removing that superb 6 pot burble from the s/s sports exhaust   - I will miss that, but I won't miss the gas costs or the servicing   ) I will 'lose' 600 lbs giving me a final, no engine, weight of circa 1500lbs or 600 lbs to 'play' with... although I'm sure a conversion to electric will put me over this but, as long as I stick with my calculated 56/44 front/rear axle weight distribution, should be 'doable'. I figure (from my calculations so far) I'll be 150- 200lbs over stock weight...

Right, I'm currently thinking of going with :
AC motor
124V LiFePO4 (lithium iron phosphate) battery pack (à la Tesla), 24KW
100 mile range
95mph top end
better than 8secs 0-60mph 😀

AC induction motor for simplicity, 3phase power and minimal servicing.
LiFePO4 batts for power density, extremely long life, light weight, extremely robust (nothing like bog standard  Lithium Ion), high systainable charge / discharge rates.
Dual battery charger (Hi / Lo = Fast / Slow) charge rates for home / workplace charging.

I'm also really reticent to modify the car structurally,  so am being really careful there; to maintain the designed axle weight ratio I'm thinking of 60% of the batteries up front, saddle-bagging the motor and the remaining 40% under the rear floor in lieu of both the fuel tank and the spare (I was thinking of gas bomb 'spare'). Splitting the battery 'pack' is *not* ideal but... needs must.

I also plan to keep my 'J' type overdrive and clutch (so, no additional weight saving there unfortunately !). Keeping the clutch seems to be 'debatable' but shifting down without one is tedious (I've tried it many times now, and generally end up in a right mess, although shifting up us pretty simple).

My concerns (apart from the cost and the loss of the 6's burble   ) are (1) any new / proposed EU legislation that may mean I become illegal due to having changed the car far from its stock norms (ICE to ekectric is a pretty big modification I guess, I mean, it's not like I'm proposing to add some wing mirrors !! ) and (2) I create an expensive, useless slug (although I'm hopeful that doing my homework should limit this (2nd) concern !!). So any one with any 'inside info' / pointers / thoughts as to legislation please pipe up !!

Like I say, thanks to all for your help and interest so far.
To anyone who's interested I have a refurb'ed 6 pot and a brand new s/s twin 3 into 1 sports exhaust system for sale (no idea as to pricing yet, open to offers !) plus the rest of the ICE kit (fuel tank etc.)
Well, thats it for the mo. As soon as I can, I'll post up some pics.

Thanks a mil.

[esxefi]

I have to ask,

are you doing this conversion to save money on running costs?or to be more friendly to the planet?

[nang]

Could you remove gearbox assy.  and have a variable speed motor or an I talking rubbish (eek)
Tony.

[byakk0]

Quoted from esxefi

why would you want to replace the sound of a straight six with,..erm.............silence?

I understand you can download engine sounds for the Tesla... >_<

[Andy Flexney]

with all due respect we are a Triumph forum and a GT6 with an electric motor or any other motor apart from a Triumph 6 pot is not a Triumph!

I thought people drove triumphs because of the rough and ready, can do attitude not top make it into an easy to drive euro box. If you want to build a kit car please do so but do not waste a good Triumph body doing it.

AndyF

[Traxgeek]

HI,

Esxefi, both I guess (to a point) but more I s'pose for the project. Most of my driving in the 6, is to from local town (errands, dropping/collecting son from school) The 6 hardly ever gets off choke. All seems a little pointless.

Tony, I guess you could. DC motors would suit well I think. The issue as I understand it (I'm still learning loads / am no expert by any standards) with direct drive is that at low speeds the motor's spinning slowly *but* drawing large currents and making heat both of which add weight with cables and the additional cooling system required. Most of my 'fun' driving is tight, twisty roads between home and town (= relatively slow,  lots of acceleration / deceleration) which doesn't really (as I understand it) lend itself well to direct drive (via the propshaft) *but* would mean the motor could sit in the tunnel area and leave the engine comp't free for mor batteries = more cost 🙁

Byakk0,  now tgere's an idea ! Record the *burble* of the 6 and play that back ! 😀 OK, probably not  !!

Andy,  respect noted but I *love* my 6, had her for nigh on 30 years, don't want to get rid of her. I just want to breath some new life into her. To all intents and purposes she'd still be a classic Triumph GT6 from the outside, but then mega modern, able to (pretty much) silently, leave any other 6 standing from the lights, under the hood.

[Dannyb]

If what I've read on this forum and others regarding the historic status of cars being looked at, it could end up witha Q plate.
which could also happen with cars fitted with Zetec angined and the like.

[Traxgeek]

Quoted from Dannyb

If what I've read on this forum and others regarding the historic status of cars being looked at, it could end up witha Q plate.
which could also happen with cars fitted with Zetec angined and the like.

You're right !!
And therein lies my biggest concern.
Where will this stop ? The currently outlined directive (as I understand it, so I'm probably wrong - but all-the-same it's worth much more investigation) is *ANY* modification that takes a car away from its de-facto 'as-delivered-from-the-factory' standard will become eligible for an IVA 'inspection' and possible re-plate with all the ensuing crap that would surely follow... Worrying indeed, not just for me and my 'project' but for *anyone* who's modified their wheels...

Thoughts ? Is there more clarity on this yet ?

[piman]

Hello TRaxgeek,

drive your AC motor with an inverter drive, (You'll need an inverter anyway to get your A.C. supply) low speed will be low current. If you use an off the shelf induction motor you may lose out on torque at low speed. Going for more sophisticated motor could increase that but at higher cost.I don't know if modern D.C. motors and drives are a better choice, you'll need to do some research.

Good luck.

Alec