What have you done recently or are planning to do soon to your Triumph?

[Guppy916]

ok Clive when your ready just pm me

[Tim Bancroft]

Clive, they are available on ebay....

[Clive]

Guppy, kind offer but mine is a Zetec!

Tim, which bit is on ebay?

11 hours ago, Guppy916 said:

ok Clive when your ready just pm me

 

1 hour ago, Tim Bancroft said:

Clive, they are available on ebay....

 

[Guppy916]

Tim can you please post a link I can't find it ta.

[Rosbif]

Dieppe a month or so ago. apart from the locally manufactured cars, the 2 Alpines, a good number of 'foreign' ones in this shot

[iani]

GT6: running & driving, I need it setting up on rolling road really, DCOE parts are too expensive for trial & error really. I have sync'd the carbs as best I can, CO reading not hugely rich but does seem to swing around quite a bit, AFR is on an analogue gauge so a fair amount of movement, almost always rich I have driven the car a couple of miles now, gets to temp ok, oil pressure is good, I think it best if I just restrain myself until RR session in January.

PI Saloon: Steve Denton came over today, we swapped out the MU for one I'd had rebuilt by KMI, they did a great job and even drilled & tapped it to take a 3/8 bsp adaptor, this allowed me to fit a fuel gauge. Fuel pressure steady 106psi at idle so appears to be set properly, bit of fluctuation when driving but I'm assured this is normal, I'm used to my EFI TR6 where the fuel pressure is rock solid. We couldn't get No1 injector to work after changing the MU, ended up replacing the pipe & injector from the set off my TR6, got it working fine in the end, the joys of Lucas PI eh.

Edited November 27, 2022 by iani

[Guppy916]

snap iani, I was lucky when sorting out my 40's I have a friend with two TR6's running on 40's, so i was able to mix and match jets to get mine drivable, then it went to Airey Tuning, I took one car in and came away with a different one, what a difference he made, Mine is a 2.5 I notice that your rocker cover is not angled at the front, I couldn't drop my engine any lower the rocker cover used to touch the bonnet

http://aireytuning.com

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Guppy916

[iani]

23 hours ago, Guppy916 said:

snap iani, I was lucky when sorting out my 40's I have a friend with two TR6's running on 40's, so i was able to mix and match jets to get mine drivable, then it went to Airey Tuning, I took one car in and came away with a different one, what a difference he made, Mine is a 2.5 I notice that your rocker cover is not angled at the front, I couldn't drop my engine any lower the rocker cover used to touch the bonnet

http://aireytuning.com

 

 

My  bonnet is raised at the front, it doesn't touch, I think it helps to use a standard tin cover too, not an ally one like you have. I looked at the site you listed, I wouldn't be leaving my car with a tuner for several days I'm afraid, so not an option for me. My car runs but it clearly isn't right, I have had several issues with this build, including melting a set of hepolite pistons due to lean running, the had was c. 12:1 CR and it wanted more fuel than I was jetted for. The carbs currently sport 34mm chokes, 150 mains & 180 air correctors, new head more like 11.5:1 so probably less thirsty, loathe to start swapping bits out in the hope it improves, I can drive it the 25 miles to RR as it is, just a pain having to wait until mid January to drive the car.

[Matt306]

In my bid to squeeze every last HP out of my TR7 4 pot I have dispensed with the water pump. Those lovers of the TR7 engine will know the water pumps are an achilles heel for this motor. They are known to leak the seals go and water goes in to the sump... Well what a silly idea that is.  With this mod fitted the jack shaft only drives my oil pump and distributor (I dont need the dizzy but the bottom of the shaft drives the oil pump)

So I have fitted a Davies Craig EWP80 water pump and fan controller. This eliminates the water pump altogether,  EJ Hughes sells a bung for the Stag engine so its the same pump so that fitted nicely a tap home for a snug fit. Lid back on and install the water pump and wiring. The 12v permanent and switched are required as well as an earth , the pump(and fan) will run on for 3 minutes after shut off to clear heat soak in the engine or until the engine is 10c below operating temp.

The display allows for a setting of the fan switch on (88) a temp sensor to the thermostat housing (an adapter is included for the top pipe). The pump mounts in the bottom hose and needs no brackets for support its not much bigger than a hand in size.

The thermostat isnt needs so thats ditched.

 

Test runs and the car will get up to temp sitting at idle, but driving  no chance I get to 62 maybe 72 at a heavy acceleration. I think i'll have to drill a couple of holes in the thermostat to assist the temp rising a bit higher. The problem with this temp is the ECU is fuelling as if it is on warmup cycle.

There is a few pics for review by yourselves.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Matt306

[RobPearce]

14 hours ago, Matt306 said:

Test runs and the car will get up to temp sitting at idle, but driving  no chance I get to 62 maybe 72 at a heavy acceleration.

Well, I think your problem is that:

14 hours ago, Matt306 said:

The thermostat isnt needs so thats ditched.

It's not true to say the thermostat isn't needed. Your fancy electric pump controller may have turned the pump off but there's still a fairly significant thermosyphon effect through radiator. The thermostat would stop that.

I'm also really not convinced by:

14 hours ago, Matt306 said:

The pump mounts in the bottom hose

This means it can only pump through the radiator. The normal cooling system is designed to circulate water round the engine (in a loop) while the thermostat is closed. This wasn't just laziness - it's quite intentional. The water circulation equalises the temperature within the block and head, and prevents air locks and vapour bubbles.

[Matt306]

15 minutes ago, RobPearce said:

Well, I think your problem is that:

It's not true to say the thermostat isn't needed. Your fancy electric pump controller may have turned the pump off but there's still a fairly significant thermosyphon effect through radiator. The thermostat would stop that.

I'm also really not convinced by:

This means it can only pump through the radiator. The normal cooling system is designed to circulate water round the engine (in a loop) while the thermostat is closed. This wasn't just laziness - it's quite intentional. The water circulation equalises the temperature within the block and head, and prevents air locks and vapour bubbles.

The instructions clearly state remove the thermostat which is why I did. 

The pump is in the bottom pipe pumping from the radiator into the block.  It's essentially in the same position as the original waterpump was but a bit upstream. As none of the waterways have been blocked I don't get how you think it's only pumping water around the radiator.

The pump also pulses when the engine is warming up so circulates water all the time.  

 

[glang]

59 minutes ago, RobPearce said:

I'm also really not convinced by:

This means it can only pump through the radiator. The normal cooling system is designed to circulate water round the engine (in a loop) while the thermostat is closed. This wasn't just laziness - it's quite intentional. The water circulation equalises the temperature within the block and head, and prevents air locks and vapour bubbles.

Yes I thought that until I modified my Vitesse cooling circuit and looked at the standard water pump housing to find the generic diagram in the workshop manual wrong! On start up the pump only has ONE circuit open which is through the manifold and/or heater and back while the circuit through the head/block is shut off by the thermostat (although it might have a small bleed hole). Flow through the engine is only achieved when the thermostat opens and the pump can push water right round the complete engine/radiator circuit....

[RobPearce]

1 hour ago, Matt306 said:

It's essentially in the same position as the original waterpump was but a bit upstream.

No, not even close. That "bit upstream" puts it the other side of a critical point.

1 hour ago, glang said:

On start up the pump only has ONE circuit open which is through the manifold and/or heater and back while the circuit through the head/block is shut off by the thermostat

No, wrong again. The pump is positioned between the inlet and outlet of the block, so the thermostat ONLY shuts off the radiator route. The coolant still circulates around the block through the pump.

[glang]

well I suppose a TR7 might be different but I followed the connections through the water pump housing on the Vitesse and theres definitely no circuit from water pump, through engine and back to water pump, sorry

[Matt306]

Glang... we might be wrong again but yes the thermostat does shut off the top hose return to the radiator. The old water pump would spin around unable to pull water into the block or move it as its full.

 

@RobPearce I really don't follow your logic . Davies Craig i imagine spend a lot of money researching there water pumps which are marketed for sports and performance. I am not the only person who has replaced the water pump in the TR7 with an electrical pump.  

I seriously doubt one end of the water jacket has a difference in the water temp to the other.  

Air locks aren't a problem as I took a sensor out and confirmed water was at the highest point and the instructions state to override the pump to turn it on to pump our airlock.

Another reason for removing the water pump is I replaced this about a year ago at a cost of nearly 300 and it leaks already.  I have read stories if the waterpump siezing and the jackshaft locking then snapping the timing chain.

 

[glang]

58 minutes ago, Matt306 said:

Glang... we might be wrong again but yes the thermostat does shut off the top hose return to the radiator. The old water pump would spin around unable to pull water into the block or move it as its full.

Difficult to find info on the TR7 cooling circuit but when you think about it there isnt much sense having a path from the water pump, through the engine and back to the pump as, when the thermostat opens, it will defeat the object of making the most of the cooler water from the radiator.

Then while the engine warms up theres no need to have cooling and small centrifugal pumps are ok to spin without any flow although in my cars case there is a small one through the manifold/heater plus the thermostat bleed hole.

[Matt306]

The small pump is mounted as per the picture above the lid goes on with a pipe going to the heater matrix and another in from the radiator. That pump then is connected via an open port into the water jacket. The thermostat is higher up housed in the inlet manifold... spot the round hole next to the inlets for the valves. The only other pipe connected to that thermostat housing is the heater return. The other one is the radiator return.  So with the thermostat closed the water pump pumps water against a closed door. I think we all feel a draft when we open a door on a windy day. Same principle I think.

[glang]

Thinking about it even more, if the cooling of the engine is done by a circuit from the mechanical pump and back your car would have seriously overheated on the test run now that its only got the electric pump! I say this because if, as Rob said, the new pump is only passing water to the radiator and back there would have been no flow through the engine😬

Edited December 3, 2022 by glang

[glang]

One thing though, to get a flow through your heater now how will it be connected to the suction side of the new pump?

[Matt306]

I did wonder that but it was getting some warmth through yesterday with no thermostat so guess it's working well enough  not as warm as it was though.

[Matt306]

10 minutes ago, glang said:

Thinking about it even more, if the cooling of the engine is done by a circuit from the mechanical pump and back your car would have seriously overheated on the test run now that its only got the electric pump! I say this because if, as Rob said, the new pump is only passing water to the radiator and back there would have been no flow through the engine😬

I think given the information from the temp sensor in the thermostat housing it was pumping plenty of water through... too much I think!

The instructions says it's ideal to remove mechanical pump and thermostat but if the thermostat is left in to drill a couple of 3mm holes to allow pass through.  That's the plan...

Edited December 3, 2022 by Matt306

[glang]

25 minutes ago, Matt306 said:

I did wonder that but it was getting some warmth through yesterday with no thermostat so guess it's working well enough  not as warm as it was though.

Well the heater is now in parallel with the engine so depending on the resistance of each path the vast majority of the water will go through the latter.... 

[glang]

26 minutes ago, Matt306 said:

I think given the information from the temp sensor in the thermostat housing it was pumping plenty of water through... too much I think!

The instructions says it's ideal to remove mechanical pump and thermostat but if the thermostat is left in to drill a couple of 3mm holes to allow pass through.  That's the plan...

I agree but cant you just dial down the flow with the fancy controller?

[glang]

Nice bit of kit and would love one on the Vitesse but I suspect its quite expensive😯 This is their solution to the heater return, a T adaptor fitted to the suction of the pump....

[RobPearce]

I give up. I've tried to help by stating facts and you're both refusing to believe me. Worse, you're throwing up straw men (that thing about the pump not pushing water through the block? I NEVER SAID THAT)