RBRR 2021 - the feedback thread

[thescrapman]

Time for my ramblings, well the first batch.

to start, I have no idea who the despicable person was or what they did, if someone could fill me in, that would be great.

That It was mentioned that people would be banned if they went to unapproved places mystifies me.

we stopped at a services in Scotland, that was not an approved stop, and MSUK had not been told we were going to stop there. Would we be banned? Clearly.

Rob admitted to going a different route round the A39/A30. Would we ban him? Of course.

On past events we have met up with friends as we went round, I even think we got some refreshments, we hadn't told anyone we were going to do that. Instant ban?

So, does an exact route need defining, with specified fuel and food stops, and it is fully policed electronically. Fill up at a supermarket, not allowed, go to McDonalds for breakfast, again not approved, both to result in an instant ban.

What if I accidentally stopped and spoke to a person I was unaware I was not supposed to talk to. 

Blackballing I guess.

Anyway, I enjoyed it, and will ramble on shortly.

[Horace]

All organisations tend towards cliquiness. It’s natural as old friends find it easier to talk to old friends and unless you are a very confident person, you feel you don’t want to impose yourself on others without invitation.  I’ve been on both sides of the fence. It’s up to those who know the ropes to make the effort (and that was very much in evidence this year). I don’t think anyone needs “earn their stripes” - they have earned them by having the guts to take part in a demanding event. God knows what stripes they may have in other areas of their lives that makes taking part in a long distance driving event look like a walk in the park!   To be fair, some things are just beyond your control.  It would be interesting to see if the stats for mechanical retirements demonstrate first timers as more likely to break down than old hands….my bet would be they don’t!  Familiarity sometimes breeds contempt!
 

Certainly I did two successful runs and failed on my third.  I prepped the same and failed because the fuel line out of the tank had become constricted.  It only became apparent on the M6 to Tebay when opening the taps for some catch up miles - the float chambers couldn’t replenish themselves with sustained high speed driving. The lines were no more than 2 years old and supposedly Ethanol proof, the filters were all clean and changed pre event.  It was a TR4 that had done several toughish classic rallies in that year and never missed a beat.  It had been to Spa a couple of times and maintained by me regularly. Should I have replaced all fuel lines just in case? Perhaps. Certainly my prep for this one was far more thorough because I was determined not to bail out again but I spent a lot of time on a car that drove fine.  
 

In my view, earning your stripes means you have a right and obligation to pass on your experience and support to those who have never done it before - not for them to be in awe of you! The feel of the event, and the efforts to welcome all comers, including newbies is so different to that in 2014 (I don’t think Im alone in that feeling) and that is a very good thing. That is a massive plus and a credit to the Club.  I think this is a very special Club with a great ethos of using our cars for the purpose they were intended.  It seems pretty unique in the classic car world where increasingly, ownership is about over priced trailer queens that if driven would conk after 20 miles. - never mind 2000.  And while I’m in praise mode, can I also say the Club Magazine is by far the best club mag!

Just to be clear, I think the event hit new heights this year  - in all areas  - and wouldn’t complain if nothing changed for the next one. 
Bob

[thescrapman]

A bit more rambling.

Roger asks why Okehampton, timing control, pure and simple. It came in same time as the more regulated opening times on the controls. If you have your arrival times recorded at defined points, it is not too difficult to work out how fast you were travelling between points A and B.

Other parties can work it out as well.

 

I think the Falls of Sin control opened 1 hour too late, Same as Skiatch "2" did 3 years ago. 

Too much standing about.

 

The RallyApp worked fine for us, we had it running on an old Samsung with a burner SIM in it, but I could have tethered to my main phone. Kept main phone free that way, And everyone has a old phone I am sure.

 

I am disappointed that more people did not ask for help when they had trouble. Or perhaps they did and their requests were more directional, and unanswered.

 

If we held anyone up, especially on the A68 when we were tentatively seeing how much abuse the gearbox would take after it started getting very noisy, I apologise, we were trying to avoid changing out of 4th at that point. After the driveshaft UJ failed, we gave up trying and just went for it to see if it went bang. It didn't.

I wonder if the paperwork should include a "F**ked car, please pass" sticker for back window, at least no-one would accuse you of driving like a granny that way.

 

 

[shedmonkey]

Thought I would throw in my thoughts as an entrant rather than one of the organising team-so these are just my personal ramblings 

I felt this was one of the best routes/timings out of the 13 runs I've done-Loved falls of shin, great toilets! good snacks plenty of time for a stationary catch up kip, enjoyed "Glasgow" stop -better crack than an Esso forecourt, Oakhampton-again good excuse for a kip- seem to remember having a kip at Gordarno on previous runs

Stress free run back to Knebworth 

My Whiney bits- (non mechanical) Sort your bloody headlight's out before the event! -followed a crew up the A9 every approaching truck flashed it ,god knows what it was like for the Triumph in front of him -when asked he didn't realise his lights were on main beam?!! WTF - had several other badly set up lights follow me ,no need for it set them up prior to the run and road test at night

Driving standards- I am more than happy to pull over and do, on doing so for one crew who constantly caught up and tailgated me  in 30 mph zones - I let them past coming out of a 30 zone- indicator on slowed right down and pulled over -  ...they then held me up on the quicker flowing national speed limit sections for the next 30 miles .. - they also had dodgy headlights!- leave your "nothing will over take me ego at home " 

Fixing stuff - you need common sense to fix stuff .don't come on the event if you don't have common sense...

[McJim]

I have to put my hand up and say I was one of the guilty ones, blinding everybody with their headlights.

I had fitted LEDs before the event and the cut off point seemed the same as the halogens against the garage door.

But after loading up the car, on the event, the dipped lights were like full beam and the full beam was only useful for blinding owls or ourselves at any reflective road sign.

Also, I forgot that I had changed the shorter competition springs to standard and that alone would raise the beam height.

Not a big problem on weedy halogens but on much brighter LEDs, it was. 

Since I live just a few miles before the Gartcosh control, I took the opportunity to reset them on Saturday and what a difference.

No longer getting flashed from oncoming traffic and the full beam doing the job splendidly after taking a best guess against the garage door again.

I agree with Andy, there were a lot of misaligned headlights, the number of times I moved the rear view mirror to avoid being blinded was unreal.

A lot of it probably was down to the weight in the boot in the cars but it is something that should probably be highlighted in the Drivers Notes for next time.

Jim.

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by McJim

[Roger Keys]

1 hour ago, shedmonkey said:

Thought I would throw in my thoughts as an entrant rather than one of the organising team-so these are just my personal ramblings 

I felt this was one of the best routes/timings out of the 13 runs I've done-Loved falls of shin, great toilets! good snacks plenty of time for a stationary catch up kip, enjoyed "Glasgow" stop -better crack than an Esso forecourt, Oakhampton-again good excuse for a kip- seem to remember having a kip at Gordarno on previous runs

Stress free run back to Knebworth 

My Whiney bits- (non mechanical) Sort your bloody headlight's out before the event! -followed a crew up the A9 every approaching truck flashed it ,god knows what it was like for the Triumph in front of him -when asked he didn't realise his lights were on main beam?!! WTF - had several other badly set up lights follow me ,no need for it set them up prior to the run and road test at night

Driving standards- I am more than happy to pull over and do, on doing so for one crew who constantly caught up and tailgated me  in 30 mph zones - I let them past coming out of a 30 zone- indicator on slowed right down and pulled over -  ...they then held me up on the quicker flowing national speed limit sections for the next 30 miles .. - they also had dodgy headlights!- leave your "nothing will over take me ego at home " 

Fixing stuff - you need common sense to fix stuff .don't come on the event if you don't have common sense...

Agreed with all that. Especially the headlight issue.

Im minded to bring a beam tester to the start next time and make everyone set the headlights before they can leave...............................

The loaded rear ends are also id suggest partly responsible for the many U/J failures over the years.

I feel an supplementary air bag kit for saloons and stags coming on........................ Whilst i dont have U/J's any more, the handling is still affected by the car being "tail down".

 

[ferny]

I adjusted mine at the first control point. I wasn't getting flashed and against moderns their rear numberplates weren't even being illuminated, but could see that against low Triumphs they weren't great.

 

It's less than two minutes to make an adjustment.

 

I might skip the idea of a beam tester and just take a toffee hammer.

[Alex]

17 hours ago, Jason said:

I'm never going to prevent newbies running with us - we can all learn new stuff from new people but to a certain degree, they need to 'earn' their stripes. For instance, I will help anyone I can, for my mates I will stop and get stuck in as I know their issues will have not been through lack of prep (if they are, I will take the mickey).

Jason they’re my stripes and I’ve had them ages, I didn’t earn them I know coz my mate did them for free. Oh n that Scottish bloke copied 😝

[McJim]

Mine are bigger.  Size is everything!

Yours are only good for an extra 5mph.

Mine are good for an extra 10mph!

Jim.

[shedmonkey]

I agree with Jim ...Alex yours are thin and weak...

 

[Alex]

😂🤣

[Tim Bancroft]

I def. feel a new RBRR rule coming on, no more Cobra stripes on Spitfires! If you want a Cobra, buy a Ford Cortina and build one with a lovely 100,000 mile Pinto engine!

I am sad that in previous RBRRs we have been considered to be cliquey, I try to go out of my way to talk to crews, but must admit this year at the start, I meant to go along each line and have a chat with new crews, but kept getting distracted. Still if they see me coming they may run away, and who could blame them!

I have loads of ideas for the next one and will be discussing them with my colleagues in the RBRR eam, they will tell me to bugger off.....but one must try eh!

New stop review so far:

Falls of Shin: Yes, def visit in 2023

Gatcosh: Its marmite, but the proximity to the M74 makes it viable. I could not understand the accent of the people inside. Message to Scotland, speak the Queen's English please, go on, give it a go!

Haynes: Not sure about that one, good parking though and facilities were good.

BIt of a shame that many crews did not go into the Carter Bar layby, many I saw, just went sailing past? Why?

We tried the 'Buddy' system 5 years ago and were under the impression that new crews felt a tadge patronised, so not repeated.

Think we need to face facts about spannering, the generation of people that grew up in the sixties and seventies witnessed their Dad fixing the Cortina/Rover/Jaguar (three social classes) on the drive/garage/car barn as they needed constant attention, so they learnt how to do basic maintenance. Modern cars are so good, that the modern man does not need to break out the tool roll, or is it that the owners of moderns are tied into service agreements with the dealer that they purchased the car from? To be fair, our departed President, Derek Pollock was not a particulary hands on type of chap and he did well on the RBRR. The RBRR will never discriminate against any group of people, all are welcome (although cobra striped Spitfires are pushing it)!

[Jason]

Blimey, it's hard not to be misquoted or taken out of context isn't it!

When I said I wanted people to earn their stripes I was trying to say that people should not expect or demand to be accepted into an established group, no matter how inclusive that group is. It's not a question of being in awe of the group - there are lots of groups of friends on the RBRR - none of them expect any sort of deference.

If I did want that, I wouldn't be helping 200+ people get their Triumphs round Britain very couple of years - i do it because I love the sight of a full field of Triumphs at the  start, finish and everywhere in between.

Newbies are welcome, always.

In my early years of ownership, I was in another club and found myself on the outside trying to get in at a local area meeting, I was not successful, I felt very much under suspicion, not welcome and shunned. I didn't go back and subsequently found Club Triumph where I never experienced even a hint of that.

This is a club where contributors are welcome, constructive criticism is welcome. Wingers, users and those on the make may not be tolerated for long  - but if you personalywant those sort of people around you, form a new clique and I'll send them your way 😁

 

[mole42]

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

In my early years of ownership, I was in another club and found myself on the outside trying to get in at a local area meeting, I was not successful, I felt very much under suspicion, not welcome and shunned. I didn't go back and subsequently found Club Triumph where I never experienced even a hint of that.

Love it! My experience exactly as a member of a single-model Triumph club (no names, but it's a V8 engine).

[Hogie]

1 hour ago, Tim Bancroft said:

I def. feel a new RBRR rule coming on, no more Cobra stripes on Spitfires! If you want a Cobra, buy a Ford Cortina and build one with a lovely 100,000 mile Pinto engine!

I am sad that in previous RBRRs we have been considered to be cliquey, I try to go out of my way to talk to crews, but must admit this year at the start, I meant to go along each line and have a chat with new crews, but kept getting distracted. Still if they see me coming they may run away, and who could blame them!

 

Hi Tim,

 when entrants came into the 'cross roads' check in at Knebworth I was giving the drivers a good chatting to.

I even got round to telling one of two entrants that their entry had been withdrawn - the look on their faces

One little Herald turned up with no fuel - just running on fumes.   Panic mode  ON.   I directed them to a petrol station just across the A1 roundabout. They were back in 30 minutes and very relieved 

Everybody came over very happy and pleased to be there.

 

Roger

 

 

 

 

[Horace]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Blimey, it's hard not to be misquoted or taken out of context isn't it!

When I said I wanted people to earn their stripes I was trying to say that people should not expect or demand to be accepted into an established group, no matter how inclusive that group is. It's not a question of being in awe of the group - there are lots of groups of friends on the RBRR - none of them expect any sort of deference.

Misunderstood and misinterpreted - but hopefully not deliberately misquoted!? 
 

I know I’m banging on here about a point that is, even in my view, at worst,  an historic one,  but doesn’t that quote just sound a bit cliquey?!  Perhaps we just have a different view of what constitutes a clique and I’m absolutely sure there is no intention to deliberately exclude anyone.  

My ideal is that we all just turn up with a common interest and newbies speak to the old hands and the old hands speak to newbies. Some newbies will be technically more competent than the old hands, many won’t be.  Some newbies may have more extensive driving experience than the old hands, many wont.  No one should lord it above anyone else but equally it’s common decency to defer to those who have more experience and respect and learn from that.  

I hope that is common ground and I think that is where we are now.  To do this event you just need a Triumph car and a willingness to drive it for a long time. I hope those are the only preconditions ever imposed. 

I hope my extensive thoughts on this issue don’t stray into the winging category - as a confirmed critic of cliques I don’t want to go and form my own😁

Last word on it.  Honest.  
Bob

ps. I think Tim is being hard on himself - he even spoke to me (didn’t spot him coming!)

Edited October 7, 2021 by Horace

[Roger Keys]

2 hours ago, mole42 said:

Love it! My experience exactly as a member of a single-model Triumph club (no names, but it's a V8 engine).

That makes 2 of us. Same club, no doubt.

[nmarston]

On 06/10/2021 at 21:54, 07021 said:

Quick review of my 5th RBR - as ever great fun and thanks to all who organise it and to those and man the controls. New things from Nigel A and the team which all worked for me.  Falls of Shin - super stop, great bogs, coffee OK, a nice spot that wasn't hard to find. Gartkosh - weird but easy to get to, bogs available, and I know venues for controls not easy to find. Run through Wales - did everyone else cheat and use satnav ? I followed Mr A's rather circuitous  route and never had a Triumph on my tail for the first time ever - and I know there's quicker ways from Gledrid to Monmouth than those windy roads.  Hmmm - enjoyed the solitude though. Lands End - no queue for breakfast and snappy service thank God - must be new management. Sparkford - nice and convenient. Looked very interesting for a future trip out. Last leg - well done Nigel - nice and simple which is what I like when knackered - unlike Turweston and the horrid cross country wend it entailed last time out. All in all - great as ever - thanks to all and see you in two years time.

Ps no more Westonzoylands or Turwestons please        

Cheers  -Nick and James Team 105

 

On 06/10/2021 at 21:54, 07021 said:

Quick review of my 5th RBR - as ever great fun and thanks to all who organise it and to those and man the controls. New things from Nigel A and the team which all worked for me.  Falls of Shin - super stop, great bogs, coffee OK, a nice spot that wasn't hard to find. Gartkosh - weird but easy to get to, bogs available, and I know venues for controls not easy to find. Run through Wales - did everyone else cheat and use satnav ? I followed Mr A's rather circuitous  route and never had a Triumph on my tail for the first time ever - and I know there's quicker ways from Gledrid to Monmouth than those windy roads.  Hmmm - enjoyed the solitude though. Lands End - no queue for breakfast and snappy service thank God - must be new management. Sparkford - nice and convenient. Looked very interesting for a future trip out. Last leg - well done Nigel - nice and simple which is what I like when knackered - unlike Turweston and the horrid cross country wend it entailed last time out. All in all - great as ever - thanks to all and see you in two years time.

Ps no more Westonzoylands or Turwestons please        

Cheers  -Nick and James Team 105

And if Mc Jim gets Scottish meat pies at Gartcosh next time it will be my favourite stop 

[Vader]

22 hours ago, roger keys said:

That makes 2 of us. Same club, no doubt.

3 of us. This club is much better

[richard w]

21 minutes ago, Vader said:

3 of us. This club is much better

Thought you'd agree J2O 😁

[Classicscrap]

As a first time entrant, can I first say a massive thanks to the organising team. I was impressed with how professionally the whole event was organised, and really enjoyed the whole experience. I spent months preparing the car, and therefore had a good understanding of it prior to the event. However, we still suffered with a smoky engine and a misfire caused by fouled plugs halfway through the run. Luckily one of our team is a retired mechanic so we managed to complete the run with regular plug changes and top ups of oil. Everyone we spoke to were really friendly, although due to fatigue we probably didn’t make conversation as much as we normally would - three large blokes in a Stag means that it’s not easy to get some sleep! We have no complaints about any of the controls, and thanks to all the volunteers that manned them. We made sure we stuck to the recommended route as much as possible, and I’m glad we did. There were some great driving roads, particularly from John O’Groats to Falls of Shin, and the Welsh section. 
The only criticism I do have, which is a small one, is with RallyAppLive. A couple of times it didn’t record us entering a control as we were reading one of the WhatsApp messages at the time. Hopefully the app will be updated to share the GPS with other apps in future updates. I didn’t realise that family members could track your progress on the app, so that would have been good to know beforehand. 
These are only minor gripes though. Overall the whole weekend was excellent and, once they have forgotten about the discomfort and lack of sleep, I hope to convince my co-drivers to do it again next time. 

Brian

[JohnD]

There is a splendid 'speeded-up' video of this RBRR on Facebook, by Ellis Stokes.     Can it be uploaded here - it'll soon be lost on FB!

 

[PeteStupps]

@JohnD I think Ellis would need to upload to Youtube or similar, and link it here. Maximum file size on the forum is too small, and I'm not sure if you can actually upload video files anyway... ?

Failing that, https://www.facebook.com/ellis.stokes.9/videos/192144336327998

[Ben Hutchings]

This has reminded me that there’s an RBRR video thread started by @Tim Bancroft and I think a YouTube playlist: https://www.clubtriumph.co.uk/forums/topic/86-round-britain-films-required/ 

Hopefully @Ellis and anyone else with 2021 vids can link them up there 👍

 

[Rubce]

Hi All

This was our second attempt at the RBRR after our DNF in 2018. We were much better organised this time and travelled down to Knebworth on the Thursday and enjoyed a sociable evening in the Novotel Bar with a couple of other crews. Friday morning was spent relaxing and then a great lunch at a local pub in Old Knebworth meant we arrived at the start line feeling fresh for the challenge. The event is as much a challenge for the crew as it is for the car and I think this needs making clear to first timers.

Breakfast at JOG was well organised with us being in and out in 30 minutes.

As has been said by many others our teams view is that the road books should be handed out in the same order they are received.

The single toilet at Falls of Shins resulted in a long queue so I resorted to using a nearby bush!

Gartcosh was interesting and three of the locals came over to chat too us about our Stag. Apparently one of them owns a Stag and we suggested that he should enter the 2023 RBRR. Yes please to the pies Jim.

Running close to the front of the pack in terms of timings meant we had time to stop in services near Preston to rectify a brake caliper fault and still arrive at Gledrid only 15 minutes after it officially opened.

Biggest bug bears for us were :-

Misaligned headlights. We were blinded for miles by cars following too close with lights that were a danger to aircraft! Loaded boots affect headlight alignment!

The second bug bear is LED lights. They are bloody awful on old cars without self levelling headlights and they are too white. 

The people who turned out to man all the various checkpoints were helpful heroes. Thanks to all of them.

Please keep the route as it is, it was great. We were pleased to see the motorway services north of the Forth Road bridge were being used rather than the portacabin race track which featured in 2018.

The social aspect at the various stops seemed much better this time. Probably because we both knew more people within the club and it was also good to finally meet many people who we have communicated with on this forum and Facebook.

Roll on 2023.😄

Bruce